CSG and RCE tag-team suspension Q&A thread! Ask us anything!

[karlsson]

Isn't two crashbolts per side a little bit on the unsafe side of things?

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by karlsson

Isn't two crashbolts per side a little bit on the unsafe side of things?

Slotting the struts might be a better option.

For the rear the Whiteline rear camber adjustment bushings will do the trick, but as mentioned they are a pain to install and adjust. They do the job well though (and you get a firmer bushing in a key place while you're at it).

- Andy

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by karlsson

Isn't two crashbolts per side a little bit on the unsafe side of things?

It makes it really easy for the bolts to slip... which is why I don't normally recommend it

[mdecoste]

Originally Posted by Slick

If you go with the Eibach ProKit springs, it will remove the oversteer and stabilize the rear end more on exit, springs have a nice F/R bias that I like.

225/235 is not much of a stagger anyway, plus I'm not a fan of it. It eliminates the ability to rotate tires and there are other ways to play with the bias.

Prokit combined with just front crash bolts will get you around -2.0 all around, you can get more up front if you slot the struts a bit.
Get used to this combo before making other changes.

Will upgraded springs without better shocks be a noticeable improvement on a track other than the added camber? And can someone explain how the rce yellows compare performance and comfort-wise to the eibach pro-kit. If I want to stay stock springs and dampers for now, would rear lower control arms be a good option for rear camber adjustability to go along with camber bolts in the front. Thanks for the response!

[Grim-Reaper]

Originally Posted by karlsson

Isn't two crashbolts per side a little bit on the unsafe side of things?

What exactly is the difference between crash bolts and aftermarket camber bolts?

Since I'm from Germany, too and also know Karlsson from the German Forum it's very interesting to know.
Until now I haven't bought any but I absolutely plan that. So as far as I know German Toyota/Subaru dealers list Camber Correction bolts - are those what you refer to as crash bolts?

[Slick]

Originally Posted by mdecoste

Will upgraded springs without better shocks be a noticeable improvement on a track other than the added camber? And can someone explain how the rce yellows compare performance and comfort-wise to the eibach pro-kit. If I want to stay stock springs and dampers for now, would rear lower control arms be a good option for rear camber adjustability to go along with camber bolts in the front. Thanks for the response!

In terms of cost, a set of Eibach springs will run you way less than the LCA's.

The Eibach's work well with the stock dampers, although I can feel them lacking at the track with quick transitions. On the street, you will be fine and there is not a big noticeable change in comfort. Plus your car will handle better with less stiffness in the rear to limit the oversteer.

With just LCA's you'll be able to gain camber on the rear, but with stock springs you will be limited to about - 0.75 up to -1.0 on the fronts (with crash bolts but without a drop), and this is the end where you actually need more camber.

[fika84]

I posted this question up in the simulation thread since we were talking about roll centers and such, but I think it got ignored (probably because it's not related to simulation).

At what point of lowering is it suggested to get the Whiteline roll center correction kit? Or is it suggested anyway to be able to run softer springs and increase mechanical grip? (Assuming the roll center is raised and get's closer to the CG, in which case reducing elastic weight transfer.)

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by Grim-Reaper

What exactly is the difference between crash bolts and aftermarket camber bolts?

Since I'm from Germany, too and also know Karlsson from the German Forum it's very interesting to know.
Until now I haven't bought any but I absolutely plan that. So as far as I know German Toyota/Subaru dealers list Camber Correction bolts - are those what you refer to as crash bolts?

Those are the crash bolts we are refferin to. They are simply a 14mm bolt placed into a 16mm upper strut hole which gives some wiggle to add camber. The bolts you buy from the dealer are the same as the bolt currently in the lower strut hole.

Camber bolts as most generaly refer to as eccentric and have a lobe that adjusts for camber. See this link: http://www.ft86speedfactory.com/spc-...front-776.html. You can buy a 16mm for the upper hole or a 14mm for the lower hole. Just do not use these is a slotted strut hole.

[troek]

Originally Posted by fika84

I posted this question up in the simulation thread since we were talking about roll centers and such, but I think it got ignored (probably because it's not related to simulation).

At what point of lowering is it suggested to get the Whiteline roll center correction kit? Or is it suggested anyway to be able to run softer springs and increase mechanical grip? (Assuming the roll center is raised and get's closer to the CG, in which case reducing elastic weight transfer.)

im about to order these as well, just searching threw the forums for that last post that pushes me over the edge. im lowered about 25-30 mm on rsr springs 3.16k spring rate front. i do seem to notice the excessive dip on the front outside corner when truning hard at speed, but it may just be my imagination. ive read mikes posts where he dosnt think front control arms that adjust roll center are cost effective for the average track day goer, but now that whitline has the kit out for 200 dollars, is it worth it?

[jdubious]

Originally Posted by jdubious

I spent much of my free time this week reading this thread.....whew!

Anyways, I don't really have the funds for expensive parts right now but am interested in adjusting camber on my stock suspension. I saw the topic of the Whiteline rear adjuster kit come up a few times but it seemed to almost be avoided by the experts. I don't think installing them will be a problem for me but after studying the pdf I have questions about the design(no opinions needed)

Does the longer adjuster bolt bottom out inside the essentric tube or does is jam against the short bolt when adjusting? The instructions say the front and rear bushings must be adjusted together(aimed in the same direction) but with everything installed you cant see them. Therefore you will have to judge strictly by the position of the control arm relative to the subframe whether or not they are aimed the same. Here is where it gets fun....since the adjuster bolts face each other and can only be rotated clockwise, when you get one about where you think you want it the other can not simply be turned to match. You will have to go a complete rotation in the opposite direction until it comes around, by then you realize thats not quite right and the process starts again. If the adjuster bolt does in fact bottom out inside the tube you could at least mark the bolt to indicate the exact direction the cam is pointing....I believe this would help a great deal. If the adjuster bottoms out against the short bolt....it might be a deal breaker for me.

Also, slotting the front struts appears to be difficult to do on the alignment rack. If done with the wheels off what would be a good amount of material to remove? I figure adjustments between OEM and -2.5 would be plenty, if thats even possible...idk. It appears at some point the knuckle is just going to hit the strut, idk where that would put the camber. I dont want to remove any more material than necessary but then again....I don't want to be back and forth from the shop to the alignment rack.

Maybe slotting the struts on the alignment rack ain't so bad???

OH!! BTW.....you guys are doing a great service for this community! It took me all this time to find this thread....There must be many others who need it but still don't know.

Edit- wow, i just read this PDF http://www.superpro.com.au/superpro_...ges/3100IS.pdf It says to use a torch to remove the old rubber mounts..PU

I see the experts are a little more active.....I never got a response to any of my questions, thought I'd give you another crack at it.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by jdubious

I see the experts are a little more active.....I never got a response to any of my questions, thought I'd give you another crack at it.

I just checked my white line bushings that I haven't installed yet. The adjuster does bottom out in the bushing; the hole doesn't go all the way through. Hopefully you'll be able to put enough torque on the longer bolt that the tension of turning either direction wont cause it to come lose.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by troek

im about to order these as well, just searching threw the forums for that last post that pushes me over the edge. im lowered about 25-30 mm on rsr springs 3.16k spring rate front. i do seem to notice the excessive dip on the front outside corner when truning hard at speed, but it may just be my imagination. ive read mikes posts where he dosnt think front control arms that adjust roll center are cost effective for the average track day goer, but now that whitline has the kit out for 200 dollars, is it worth it?

I really wish some smart person could relate the difference to a spring rate % increase. It would make it much easier to perceive the difference and understand approximately how much of a difference the change will make to the front roll stiffness.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by jdubious

I see the experts are a little more active.....I never got a response to any of my questions, thought I'd give you another crack at it.

The best way to do it is to get a set of proper rear lower control arms, and front camber plates. Everything else is a hack, literally.

Tag me in a post with @CSG Mike if you need a response; I can't watch the whole forum

[troek]

Originally Posted by troek

im about to order these as well, just searching threw the forums for that last post that pushes me over the edge. im lowered about 25-30 mm on rsr springs 3.16k spring rate front. i do seem to notice the excessive dip on the front outside corner when truning hard at speed, but it may just be my imagination. ive read mikes posts where he dosnt think front control arms that adjust roll center are cost effective for the average track day goer, but now that whitline has the kit out for 200 dollars, is it worth it?

@CSG Mike