How satisfied are you with your FR-S/BRZ?

[AsianStyle]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

The engine gets a lot of shit but all the alternatives really don't live up to it in some aspect, the Honda K20 and Toyota GTS wouldn't pass emissions standards and got mediocre at best fuel economy, the idea of a 6 or 8 would add noticeable cost both in terms of $$ and weight (likely a beefed up powertrain).

The only two options available imo for this car to be more powerful stock would be either FI or larger displacement. FI was thrown out due to character reasons from the engineering team, there's definitely a cost factor there of at least a couple thousand dollars worth of parts, tooling, R&D, reliability testing, meeting emissions. Larger displacement would have increased the cost of around 2/3's of the units due to taxes on engine displacement, likely to the point where it would have hurt sales, I don't need to link the articles about how the European arm of Toyota isn't impressed with the sales as it is citing it isn't powerful enough for the price.

Hopefully I'll get the chance to try the WRX with the FA20DIT in the next month or two, maybe that is all the car needs I have a hunch it may not have the same playfulness though...
@WolfpackS2k in the broad spectrum of motors, yes 7,400 rpm is kind of old hat but if you take 'high-revving' or 'rev-happy' to be a descriptor of character and less based on paper stats I think it's very applicable to most people's definitions. The thing really doesn't come online until you're over 5k rpm, you could own this car forever only hitting 4,000 rpm and think it's the biggest farce to hit showrooms in the last decade, it feels like a boring tin-can of a Toyota at regular cruising speeds and rpms and I have a hunch that's why so many people felt underwhelmed.

It's really easy to test drive this car, wait for a hole in traffic and put your foot down in third gear and nothing at all interesting happens, meanwhile in the Mustang you can test drive not three blocks away you'll get pushed back in your seat hear a nice grumble and make the salesman a bit nervous.

Sure the engine's a snoozefest under 5k rpm but I can't think of anything that could realistically do a better job.

I agree with most of your points. It would have been more expensive to develop a new toyota motor, but I for one would have gladly paid the extra for it. IMO, I honestly can't think of another car I would have rather bought that wasn't significantly more expensive (BMW 2/M2/4/M4, Cayman). Even at 30-35k I would see this car as a bargain.

With that being said at the current price of 25k I can live with the power (wish there was no torque dip, but whatever). My biggest and possibly only real complaint about the car is the reliability. I don't think it's too much to ask for a N/A 4 to be reliable. I believe most rightfully so blame the shitty Subaru tuning job. The thing that pisses me off the most is how the updated tunes are still only available through a TSB and most dealers are not willing to help you out unless you pay out of pocket or go through this whole dog and pony show to get them to pay for it. I'm planning to actually pay for the tune out of pocket because I don't want to leave the car with the dealer for days with the possibility of them rejecting to pay for the tune. Just absolutely ridiculous. I guess if i bought a MY 2014+ I would have nothing to complain about, but I think the first year buyers are getting the shaft.

[Scenic Driver]

I hit 45k miles today, have had the car for 17 months, drive 120 miles a day, and have done 8 track days with it.

I'm still happy with it.

[iLuveKetchup]

Originally Posted by AsianStyle

The thing that pisses me off the most is how the updated tunes are still only available through a TSB and most dealers are not willing to help you out unless you pay out of pocket or go through this whole dog and pony show to get them to pay for it. I'm planning to actually pay for the tune out of pocket because I don't want to leave the car with the dealer for days with the possibility of them rejecting to pay for the tune. Just absolutely ridiculous. I guess if i bought a MY 2014+ I would have nothing to complain about, but I think the first year buyers are getting the shaft.

Sorry a bit OT, but to the 2014s have the updated tune from factory?

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by AsianStyle

IMO, I honestly can't think of another new car I would have rather bought that wasn't significantly more expensive (BMW 2/M2/4/M4, Cayman). Even at 30-35k I would see this car as a bargain.

With the stipulation of 'new' this is exactly how I feel. I think the only car that would willingly bring me into the showrooms again would be a rotary, too many good fun cars on the market for a fraction of the cost of a Toyobaru.

I can't remember many failures from the last 6 months off the top of my head and I'm a loser who spends too much time on this forum. Even at it's height the DI debacle claimed maybe a couple hundred cars out of tens of thousands, at this point I'm honestly under the impression that it was a combination of bad luck, a tune that should have been examined more thoroughly under heavy use, hard usage, and in some cases modifications.

Toyobaru fucked up and the worst part about owning this car has been the dealership experience, I'm with you, weighing the pro's and con's of just going aftermarket just to get the update, I don't want power, I just want longevity.

@iLuveKetchup Yes, the newer tune was rolled out sometime around 12/12 and 1/13 production dates. We don't know if it fixes it for sure but there have been almost zero reports of late.

@dizzario eh, if you were this age in 1992 I don't think you'd be significantly happier. There was still an economic recession to recover from and adjusting for inflation a brand new 240sx ($14.5k then) would be $24.6k, your wage would be lower and you wouldn't have the internet to connect all this aftermarket info, you'd be going off magazines calling vendors based on which one had the best dyno chart in the pretty picture. Literally the only advantage I can think of is lower cost of living and housing.

Also worth noting that if you went back to 1989 and you jumped on the first year model for $13.2k ($25.2k today) you'd be stuck with the single cam truck motor with a whopping 140 horses. Still fun (I've enjoyed my KA24E for 4 years now in my truck), but a far cry from the Toyobaru available today, remember that they weighed about 2,700 lbs.

[dizzario]

Damn that's a good point hahaha. With the SR'd and CA'd versions not available here it would have been the same situation back then for sure: RWD, missing some HP, and still an-up-and-comer.

I'm just referring to now, though...but you're point is well-recieved!

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by AsianStyle

The thing that pisses me off the most is how the updated tunes are still only available through a TSB and most dealers are not willing to help you out unless you pay out of pocket or go through this whole dog and pony show to get them to pay for it. I'm planning to actually pay for the tune out of pocket because I don't want to leave the car with the dealer for days with the possibility of them rejecting to pay for the tune.

With my dealer, I told my service adviser that I had some fluctuations at idle and that I had found a TSB which looked like it might help. I gave them a printout of the TSB and they re-flashed the ECU without any issues.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...62&postcount=1

Did your dealer tell you they were going to charge you? If so, that's BS.

[stevo_12v]

Originally Posted by iLuveKetchup

Sorry a bit OT, but to the 2014s have the updated tune from factory?

Gives a couple of ponies from personal experience. Mine(2012 June build) had a 2014 flash.

Back on topic.

Very satisfied with the car. +50hp over stock and -100kg from stock.. this is the way the car is meant to be. Although I'll probably be saying I need 20 more hp and 50kgs less within a couple of months.
But it is fun beating WRX's, STi's, Clio's, GTi's, R32/33 Skylines and the odd Evo on autokhana and track.. moreso when the car is still naturally apsirated

[P86RAVES]

Originally Posted by dizzario

I want another s-chassis. Maybe it's the community or maybe it's the fact that it's a new car and the parts all carry new-car prices but I'm getting bored. Dreadfully bored. There's only so many things you can do to your car when you're married and have to pay for a house in San Diego. I am by no means rich...I just know that the money I spend/spent on this car would go lightyears further on an s-chassis and QUALITY parts for it. I also wouldn't feel as bad about tracking it or sliding it. I'm intimidated by it being a new.

I just wasn't meant for these times man, I swear.

Same here.

I was hoping this car would feel something like an s-chassis to live with, but it's just not the same. The same money put into other cars, used of course, yeilds so much better performance results that putting money into this chassis feels like PPV porn.

[AsianStyle]

Originally Posted by iLuveKetchup

Sorry a bit OT, but to the 2014s have the updated tune from factory?

Yes, I believe that's the general consensus. Anything with a "ZA1JA01C" or newer tune is suppose to be ok. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...=38397&page=24

I think any car with a vin after the vin's eligible for the Intermittent RPM Drop Condition TSB should be good. I think the TSB came out Dec 2013, so cars with a build date after that should be good.

[AsianStyle]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

With my dealer, I told my service adviser that I had some fluctuations at idle and that I had found a TSB which looked like it might help. I gave them a printout of the TSB and they re-flashed the ECU without any issues.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...62&postcount=1

Did your dealer tell you they were going to charge you? If so, that's BS.

No, they told me I had to drop the car off and wait a couple days for them to confirm it is happening or I would have to pay. I daily my car, so that's out of the question.

Also, I'm not have any real issues with the car, so there is a high chance they will keep my car for a couple days and say nope can't repeat it, so pony up money or get lost.

[AsianStyle]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

With the stipulation of 'new' this is exactly how I feel. I think the only car that would willingly bring me into the showrooms again would be a rotary, too many good fun cars on the market for a fraction of the cost of a Toyobaru.

I can't remember many failures from the last 6 months off the top of my head and I'm a loser who spends too much time on this forum. Even at it's height the DI debacle claimed maybe a couple hundred cars out of tens of thousands, at this point I'm honestly under the impression that it was a combination of bad luck, a tune that should have been examined more thoroughly under heavy use, hard usage, and in some cases modifications.

Toyobaru fucked up and the worst part about owning this car has been the dealership experience, I'm with you, weighing the pro's and con's of just going aftermarket just to get the update, I don't want power, I just want longevity.

@iLuveKetchup Yes, the newer tune was rolled out sometime around 12/12 and 1/13 production dates. We don't know if it fixes it for sure but there have been almost zero reports of late.

@dizzario eh, if you were this age in 1992 I don't think you'd be significantly happier. There was still an economic recession to recover from and adjusting for inflation a brand new 240sx ($14.5k then) would be $24.6k, your wage would be lower and you wouldn't have the internet to connect all this aftermarket info, you'd be going off magazines calling vendors based on which one had the best dyno chart in the pretty picture. Literally the only advantage I can think of is lower cost of living and housing.

Also worth noting that if you went back to 1989 and you jumped on the first year model for $13.2k ($25.2k today) you'd be stuck with the single cam truck motor with a whopping 140 horses. Still fun (I've enjoyed my KA24E for 4 years now in my truck), but a far cry from the Toyobaru available today, remember that they weighed about 2,700 lbs.

Yes, you are absolutely right. I did mean new, but even used cars. I can't think of too many cars I'd rather own. Really have a bias against convertibles or the s2000 would be nice and older BMW/Porsches I would be scared off by maintenance/reliability and prices would still be a good bit more than a twin. Did look at some Caymans before finally buying the FR-S.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by AsianStyle

No, they told me I had to drop the car off and wait a couple days for them to confirm it is happening or I would have to pay. I daily my car, so that's out of the question.

Also, I'm not have any real issues with the car, so there is a high chance they will keep my car for a couple days and say nope can't repeat it, so pony up money or get lost.

Possible to find a different dealer? I'm thinking this could be dealership-specific.

My service adviser took me at my word, and I was in and out of there in less than 2 hrs, including complete 15k service.

BTW if they do charge you for a re-flash (which is BS IMO), it's 0.4 hrs labor, which should be no more than $50.

[AsianStyle]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Possible to find a different dealer? I'm thinking this could be dealership-specific.

My service adviser took me at my word, and I was in and out of there in less than 2 hrs, including complete 15k service.

BTW if they do charge you for a re-flash (which is BS IMO), it's 0.4 hrs labor, which should be no more than $50.

Yep, that's what they quoted me. In the grand scheme of things $50 isn't much and I rather pay that for the convenience than go looking for another dealership, which is what I plan to do during my 15k service.

Still doesn't make the situation right and I think Toyota/Subaru should just come out with a TSB that just states re-flash for older models.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by AsianStyle

Yep, that's what they quoted me. In the grand scheme of things $50 isn't much and I rather pay that for the convenience than go looking for another dealership, which is what I plan to do during my 15k service.

Still doesn't make the situation right and I think Toyota/Subaru should just come out with a TSB that just states re-flash for older models.

Yeah I agree. Toyota should find a way to re-flash all the 2013 cars, instead of leaving it up to dealers. Good luck with getting that flash btw.