Daily drive GT86 with 2jz engine

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by MRS-Colin

This is a big issue with any aftermarket automotive "niche" product. Nobody wants to leap, so nothing gets done. Motec can command a higher price which gives a faster ROI. If someone "leaped" with me I would've had this all squared away a long time ago.



^ Thanks for your confidence Phil

Agreed definitely. A niche product is hard to develop. I don't understand when you say all in what you mean. What does it mean to leap with you?

Does it mean giving you the car until you figure it all out? Would you have an ETA on that? Would that mean ABS, AC, traction, Cruise Control would all work?

I want to reiterate, no knock on any other solution out there. This stuff is obviously not easy if it were it would have been done and complete by multiple options a long time ago. I'm sure in a few years this conversation will be moot as other solutions work and figure it all out, I'm just talking about the situation up to date.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

[MRS-Colin]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

Agreed definitely. A niche product is hard to develop. I don't understand when you say all in what you mean. What does it mean to leap with you?

Does it mean giving you the car until you figure it all out? Would you have an ETA on that? Would that mean ABS, AC, traction, Cruise Control would all work?

I want to reiterate, no knock on any other solution out there. This stuff is obviously not easy if it were it would have been done and complete by multiple options a long time ago. I'm sure in a few years this conversation will be moot as other solutions work and figure it all out, I'm just talking about the situation up to date.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

So story:

I've had three customers use my solution on their car.

Rick's car: I got Rick up and going from near nothing in a one day stint in Dallas. Rick wanted basic functionality and he was ecstatic. No want or need for ABS/Trac/AC. Cruise control maybe. Rick is a busy guy and I've had no further testing time with him. Now he is selling so I'll have 0 more testing time.

Customer in Washington state: Took a week of work to go to Washington to get a complete system working. Vehicle's first start was on day 4/5 so I had almost no time to get anything working. Customer got busy, moved, has no time for testing.

Customer in Atlanta: Full track car. No want/need for ABS/Trac/AC.

So to wrap it up, I've had NOBODY approach me and go: "Colin, I want it all to work, here is a car, when you turn the key the engine starts and it drives, I'll be back in a week or two."

I've completed all of the features you want on other vehicles with GM ECUs. Those other vehicles for private label applications I had the ideal situation of a car that works and time to work on it.

It isn't an IF...it's a WHEN do I get to have a car to work on.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by MRS-Colin

So to wrap it up, I've had NOBODY approach me and go: "Colin, I want it all to work, here is a car, when you turn the key the engine starts and it drives, I'll be back in a week or two.

@DustinS ?

[armstrom]

If I'm not mistaken the Hydra Nemesis should be able to run a 2JZ and keep all the stock features. My former business partner reverse engineered all of the CAN protocols. Element Tuning is the Nemesis dealer for the 86, I believe. http://elementtuning.com/2013/09/11/...13-frsft86brz/

That page is for a PNP setup on the FA20 but the nemesis is more than capable of running the 2JZ or any other engine for that matter.

Full disclaimer: I used to resell the Nemesis a long time ago on the MR2 Turbo platform. I have no financial stake in it any more nor do I have any relationship with element tuning.
-Matt

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by armstrom

If I'm not mistaken the Hydra Nemesis should be able to run a 2JZ and keep all the stock features. My former business partner reverse engineered all of the CAN protocols. Element Tuning is the Nemesis dealer for the 86, I believe. http://elementtuning.com/2013/09/11/...13-frsft86brz/

That page is for a PNP setup on the FA20 but the nemesis is more than capable of running the 2JZ or any other engine for that matter.

Full disclaimer: I used to resell the Nemesis a long time ago on the MR2 Turbo platform. I have no financial stake in it any more nor do I have any relationship with element tuning.
-Matt

The thing is that when the engine you are running is an FA20, you are sending to the CAN systems the data they're expecting to see. When you run a different engine, that's where it gets tricky because the engine is not sending the CAN signals the car CAN systems are looking for. That is where these solutions explained here are required to translate the 2JZ/LSx or any other motor signals into ones the car CAN systems can read.

[Eleanor]

Quick update.

I'll sale my Haltech elite 2500 and buy the MoTec M130 from Pure Automotive.
I invested a lot of money and time in this project and I'll do everything that this project will be perfect.

[armstrom]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

The thing is that when the engine you are running is an FA20, you are sending to the CAN systems the data they're expecting to see. When you run a different engine, that's where it gets tricky because the engine is not sending the CAN signals the car CAN systems are looking for. That is where these solutions explained here are required to translate the 2JZ/LSx or any other motor signals into ones the car CAN systems can read.

That's not quite how this works. The engine itself does not generate the CAN bus data. The ECU does. And you're correct, when you do an engine swap those signals are no longer present on the bus, but that's because the stock ECU can't run the swapped engine and therefore does not generate the signals. You are then left with two options (assuming you want everything to work, of course a third option is to just drive with no tach, no cruise, no abs, etc...)
1) Use a "converter box" that can generate the required signals by either translating the CAN bus signals of another ECU (this is common with LS swaps when you want to run the stock GM ECU) or generating CAN signals from old-school analog and digital signals generated by another ECU.

2) Use an aftermarket ECU that is capable of generating the correct CAN bus packets required by the rest of our car. To my knowledge only two systems can do this currently, the Motec and the Nemesis. I understand Haltech is working on a solution.

-Matt

[DustinS]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

@DustinS ?

We talked VERY briefly about it. They are only 8 hours away. I am still getting everything worked out on my end, but thinking about taking it up there and leaving it for them to get what is needed done. Then Colin is not limited by travel time frame. Need to get the car running first, have one event scheduled here in a few weeks then the car just goes back into DD/weekend fun car status. Don't mind living without it for awhile if it means helping the community.

[Eleanor]

Originally Posted by armstrom

2) Use an aftermarket ECU that is capable of generating the correct CAN bus packets required by the rest of our car. To my knowledge only two systems can do this currently, the Motec and the Nemesis. I understand Haltech is working on a solution.

-Matt

I've talked with Haltech and they told me that if I want to keep all the OEM features, I should sale my Elite 2500 and buy a different ECU ( Motec).

This is the reason that I decided to sale my Haltech (which already have been sold) and purchase Motec.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Eleanor

I've talked with Haltech and they told me that if I want to keep all the OEM features, I should sale my Elite 2500 and buy a different ECU ( Motec).

This is the reason that I decided to sale my Haltech (which already have been sold) and purchase Motec.

It is sell. If you are saleing it, then you are reducing your price for it.

Jaden

[OmarGC]

Motec, emtron, and hydra are the 3 capable to translate

[ChristineAlexa]

Just curious, has anyone just said heck with factory gauges, abs, tc, A/C and for gauges just used an IQ3 for the dash/datalogger (and mounted it in factory location)?

Since, as I recall, it can be set to whatever CAN bus signal code is desired. It has been awhile since I had an IQ3 in my hands, so just going from memory.

[Zer0]

Originally Posted by ChristineAlexa

Just curious, has anyone just said heck with factory gauges, abs, tc, A/C and for gauges just used an IQ3 for the dash/datalogger (and mounted it in factory location)?

Since, as I recall, it can be set to whatever CAN bus signal code is desired. It has been awhile since I had an IQ3 in my hands, so just going from memory.

That's the route I'm going. I will be rewiring the entire car to do it. I will be using AiM display, smart wire power distribution module, GM ECU no traction control for a while then Motec and motor sports traction control, Willwood mater cyl. No abs at first then a Motorsports ABS unit later.

[Greenbean]

Originally Posted by DustinS

At this point in time. Nothing but Motec will allow EVERYTHING to run. You will have to make a few sacrifices for now.

emtron kv keeps everything as well