SCCA Solo C Street Discussion

[imnotsureaboutbrz]

Originally Posted by doctor_driver

So I just got into a 2017 BRZ-PP and have a Spec-D Tuning Catback Exhaust (the neighbor's are big fans) and a set of Enkei RPF1's 17x7.5 (having to use 5mm spacers to clear brembo's) with BFG Rival S 1.5 245/40/17 (probably too wide but I wanted to try out the new BFG -there was no 235 option- and get as much out of the extra half inch on the wheels as i could).

Does anyone know of any front bar upgrades or brake pads that autocrossers have been successful with in the 17 PP? Or is this a time where progress requires experimentation?

Any pics of the wheel mounted, how much do they poke with the spacers? I haven't much information on wheel figments for the PP cars. I'm planning on going with a different size tire I really like those wheels.

[Twinz]

Originally Posted by Locust

What were the courses/conditions like at Dixie? Looks like the WRX took DS by 8/10ths.

Day one course was a PITA shifting nightmare. Three 180's with two of them creating tough diggs on exit. (I needed first gear out of one of them). The WRX had an advantage on at least two of those exits, but they had to have issues making it through the tightest one.

Day two was better for the WRX. The launch was long and straight so they probably started 3-5 tenths ahead of the pack.

[doctor_driver]

Originally Posted by imnotsureaboutbrz

Any pics of the wheel mounted, how much do they poke with the spacers? I haven't much information on wheel figments for the PP cars. I'm planning on going with a different size tire I really like those wheels.

No pics yet, I'll get some good ones when I run an event this weekend with the Gulf Coast Region though!

[doctor_driver]

Originally Posted by justinco

Same as any other car for the front bar. I use the common Whiteline 20mm on my 2017 BRZ, used the same one on my 2013 FRS. Brake pads are kind of personal preference. I've used Hawk HPS on both my twins (and other cars) and also like Ferodo which I use on my BMW (DS2500). Good street/autox pads, not great for track (BMW has Hawk DTC60's for track).

EDIT: I should mention that front bar is used for STX classed autocross, but stock class guys use the same thing usually.

Good to hear. Thanks!

[Locust]

Originally Posted by Twinz

Day two was better for the WRX. The launch was long and straight so they probably started 3-5 tenths ahead of the pack.

Ugh I hate when they do that. There are actual rules that prohibit launch starts that would give an unfair advantage and I believe you can bring them up prior to competition.

That's my major concern going to DS is that we'll just be way too underpowered for most of the national level course designs.

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by Locust

Ugh I hate when they do that. There are actual rules that prohibit launch starts that would give an unfair advantage and I believe you can bring them up prior to competition.

That's my major concern going to DS is that we'll just be way too underpowered for most of the national level course designs.

Yup. The January or February fastrack addressed how to protest course design, you need to file the protest within a certain amount of time after the course is closed for walking before the day's first runs.

[Twinz]

Originally Posted by Biggins

It looks like you coned your fast run today but still held on?

-Just realized I forgot to reply to this question...

My first run was a decent clean run as planned, but I screwed up my second run at the launch when I somehow kicked her a little sideways whilst launching in a straight line. I had to lift off the throttle to get the back end to miss hitting the staging cone. Solo Storm says I was down 4 tenths before I even got to the first element.

Buy the time I got to my third run, my primary competition had used up all their runs and I was still holding a slim lead. So, for my third run, I basically decided to see how fast I could get the car around the course with a high-risk run. The time was nice, but I also picked up two cones.

FWIW Ricky Crow made a high-risk run work, on his last run, after he had coned himself out of the trophies with his first two runs. He probably could have got himself into contingency with a solid "safe" run, but he apparently decided he was going to win or go home empty handed. I saw workers going out to recenter cones after that run, but he was clean and the time was just enough to get him the win. That two day STR battle between him and David Marcus was impressive.

[TMF]

I'm probably opening a can of worms here...but...does anyone have the cam plate leak? And if so, what have you done to resolve the leak?

Using RTV to create a new gasket seems like it doesn't fix the issue all the time. ( http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53949 ) There are some aftermarket plates that use an o-ring (instead of having to make a gasket: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46520 ). Not sure if the aftermarket plate would be illegal or if it would be legal under this provision from the rules:

"All repairs must comply with factory-authorized methods and procedures,
or industry standard methods, as follows: If the OEM does not provide an appropriate
method of repair, industry standard methods and procedures may
be used. Such repairs may not result in a part or combination of parts that
provides a competitive advantage (e.g., significant change to weight, suspension
control, power, etc.) as compared to the standard part(s). Competitors
are strongly cautioned to use this allowance to make common-sense repairs
only"

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by TMF

I'm probably opening a can of worms here...but...does anyone have the cam plate leak? And if so, what have you done to resolve the leak?

Using RTV to create a new gasket seems like it doesn't fix the issue all the time. ( http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53949 ) There are some aftermarket plates that use an o-ring (instead of having to make a gasket: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46520 ). Not sure if the aftermarket plate would be illegal or if it would be legal under this provision from the rules:

"All repairs must comply with factory-authorized methods and procedures,
or industry standard methods, as follows: If the OEM does not provide an appropriate
method of repair, industry standard methods and procedures may
be used. Such repairs may not result in a part or combination of parts that
provides a competitive advantage (e.g., significant change to weight, suspension
control, power, etc.) as compared to the standard part(s). Competitors
are strongly cautioned to use this allowance to make common-sense repairs
only"

The bolded parts are your problem.

One, the OEM does provide an appropriate procedure for the problem. Just because it's not always successful doesn't mean it isn't appropriate; if you can't convince a PC otherwise (and I really doubt you can), the part is illegal regardless of the rest of the clause.

Two, most of these plates are probably lighter. The question is what "significant" means. You are probably not going to like the PC's answer.

Now, in practical terms: for your local lot, probably no one will care. It will help your case if you at least try RTV first. At a national event, but you're outside the trophies: again, probably no one will care, and I will help you make fun of the sorry SOB that protests you so he can be slightly less mid-pack than he is. At a national event and you're in the trophies: protest bait, and they're in plain sight.

[TMF]

Originally Posted by renfield90

The bolded parts are your problem.

One, the OEM does provide an appropriate procedure for the problem. Just because it's not always successful doesn't mean it isn't appropriate; if you can't convince a PC otherwise (and I really doubt you can), the part is illegal regardless of the rest of the clause.

Two, most of these plates are probably lighter. The question is what "significant" means. You are probably not going to like the PC's answer.

Now, in practical terms: for your local lot, probably no one will care. It will help your case if you at least try RTV first. At a national event, but you're outside the trophies: again, probably no one will care, and I will help you make fun of the sorry SOB that protests you so he can be slightly less mid-pack than he is. At a national event and you're in the trophies: protest bait, and they're in plain sight.

Fair enough, I completely agree with your sentiments.

I was able to find a local that had the leak successfully fixed by a local dealer. Since my car is still under warranty (which is half the reason why I bought a newer frs) and that repair would be free, I'm going to go that route and hope it fixes the issue.

Thank you for your feedback.

[doctor_driver]

So I finally got to do an event on the Rival S 1.5 (245/40/17) in my 17 BRZ - PP. Felt like I was having a lot of understeer in the bigger sweeping turns. Only other thing I have on the car is a Sped-D Tuning catback.

Any thoughts on the understeer issue? Was running 30 psi (cold) all the way around and it didnt look like the sidewall was collapsing at all. Wear was right on the markers perfectly.

[justinco]

Originally Posted by doctor_driver

So I finally got to do an event on the Rival S 1.5 (245/40/17) in my 17 BRZ - PP. Felt like I was having a lot of understeer in the bigger sweeping turns. Only other thing I have on the car is a Sped-D Tuning catback.

Any thoughts on the understeer issue? Was running 30 psi (cold) all the way around and it didnt look like the sidewall was collapsing at all. Wear was right on the markers perfectly.

Where in the corner was the push? Entry, mid, exit?

You probably want to max out front camber w/ the crash bolts if you have not already. Adding more air to the rear tires might help too. A little of a push is not necessarily a bad thing, assuming the car will rotate/turn when you lift or brake.

[doctor_driver]

Originally Posted by justinco

Where in the corner was the push? Entry, mid, exit?

You probably want to max out front camber w/ the crash bolts if you have not already. Adding more air to the rear tires might help too. A little of a push is not necessarily a bad thing, assuming the car will rotate/turn when you lift or brake.

Push was worst during mid turn and exit. It might be a while til I can get the front camper maxed out (in medical school and am about to go in lock down modes prepping for boards on June 10th). But I'll try that out as soon as I can.

[TMF]

Originally Posted by doctor_driver

Push was worst during mid turn and exit. It might be a while til I can get the front camper maxed out (in medical school and am about to go in lock down modes prepping for boards on June 10th). But I'll try that out as soon as I can.

I actually have the opposite issue with my FRS...understeer on entry (but mainly only when I come in too fast), and oversteer on corner exit, sometimes mid-turn. Granted that is with the TRD springs, koni's, and TRD sway bars, so my setup is very different.

I'd check:
1. Alignment, specifically getting as much negative camber in front by using the OEM crash bolts (you can search for the part number and find it easily). If you still don't get enough rotation, then you can start experimenting with some toe-out. I personally always run 0 toe, but a small bit of toe-out (I believe in the rear) can help quite a bit.
2. Hot tire pressure (not cold). The 225 RE71's seem to like low 30's psi in the front, high 20's PSI in the rear. Might be different for the Rival's, esp in the 245. You generally want to set the tire pressure to maximize grip and not change tire pressure up to alter handling. Using chalk on the sidewalls can help to see how far you are rolling onto the sidewalls. Once you get the fronts and rears to roll just to the edge of the sidewall, that should be the right tire pressure. However, since you're limited on adjustments in a stock car, tire pressures can be used to alter handling. Understeer on exit can be helped with higher rear tire pressures.
3. (this should almost be #1) Check the nut behind the wheel. Sometimes it is your driving "style" (or bad habits) that are causing the car to understeer. Asking for advice from a competent local instructor at an event is invaluable. Even the best drivers still take instructors sometimes...you can always learn something from another driver.
4. Consider getting adjustable struts. Adjustable struts give you another dial to adjust how the car is handling. Koni offers a direct replacement (not sure if they have them for the 2017's yet. It's possible they are the same as the 13-16 struts) and they are relatively (to other other aftermarket struts) inexpensive.
5. If the above don't help enough, you could consider swapping out the rear sway bar for a larger one. In general, autox'ers want a bigger front bar to help in quick transitions (at the expense of grip during sweepers), but if you're running a lot of courses with a lot of big sweepers, you might consider a bigger rear bar.

I'd focus on 1, 2, and 3 before dropping money on parts. You will become a better driver if you learn to hone your skills first before trying to learn on a modified car with more knobs to turn.

Others, please feel free to chime in as well!