Vivid Racing - Agency Power Dyno Runs Part III

[showbe]

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[Hawaiian]

My post was removed as well, but you came late tothe show. If you were around you would have seen that they posted claims that the exhaust made 40hp. We all knew it was false, and to protect other members we put them in a spot where they had to put up proper numbers (except for the 12hp pulley claim). Don't think they posted those up under good will reasons. It was under threat of a ban that made them do it.

Originally Posted by showbe

Ridiculous how I get infracted just be cause I speak up on people who turned this first 7 pages of the thread into a huge argument about stupid things. People shouldnt be arguing in a thread like this. If the mods would actually do their job and give people warnings on stuff like that then their wouldnt of been a need for that.

If you were a vendor how would you feel if you were in their shoes. Mods are suppose to lay the law down. I might of gone a little far but when they dont do anything and just sit and watch then someone needs to say something. People are very ungrateful for a vendor giving them data on their products. Even when it shows gains they still need to rant/complain about something wrong. People like that are just here to cause problems on the forum and their isnt a single thing being done about it.

[gmookher]

I get my posts deleted ALL THE TIME....

no message from Mod, no infraction, just for speaking my mind, being me

Hurry someone quote me before this is gone

I apparently not an ASSet/asshat to the community enough...

I would love to promote our local shops, like vivid more!

[EZWood]

Originally Posted by gmookher

I get my posts deleted ALL THE TIME....

no message from Mod, no infraction, just for speaking my mind, being me

Hurry someone quote me before this is gone

I apparently not an ASSet/asshat to the community enough...

I would love to promote our local shops, like vivid more!

Here's your quote. If all your posts are similar in being as pertinent as this I can see why your posts are being deleted. Don't take this personally, maybe a wakeup call.

[showbe]

After looking at other peoples dynos and then going back to there dynos it does look suspicious. Now I understand why all that hate... I remember reading from Perrin and other posters that a light weight pulley wouldnt see gains on a dyno.. why is theres showing gains then?

Their is a 60 page thread on nasioc about AP also. Which is now why I understand why all the hate towards them. People claim they have been banned as a vendor at every major subbie forum. But they should be allowed a fresh start here. Once more people come out with dynos of their products then well see the light. Until then we cant do anything about it but trust them. I for one will be very cautious until then after seeing a lot of people not pleased.. Lots of people have already complained about the fitment which seems pretty common with them.

[vividracing]

Thank you for the comments and good words concerning the dyno numbers, the issue of how they were originally posted, and the effort we've added to attempt to clear the air with our piece by piece steps.

We strive to release power gains to help promote products that are tested in our facility in a truthful manner and to provide additional info to the end user. There is no reason to inflate the numbers and then be "found out" later on as it effects our credibility as a business and would be a disservice to our customers. This is why we took the additional steps to show all components at the time a test vehicle was available.

As for fitment issues, I have been made aware of issues some customers have had and the solution found is within the installation. With so many points of adjustment in the system this can be remedied with an extra pair of hands, leaving the system loose, then held in the desired position when final tightened.

Concerning Automatic fitment, Agency Power is aware of this as well. The fastest solution would be to use the Motiv parts that are a confirmed fitment. The Agency Power Exhaust system can be purchased per component so this is easily substituted. At this time I do not have a release date for an automatic fitment, but will be sure to make the announcement when available.

If there are any other issues, concerns, or comments that you need help with feel free to contact me directly. Via PM here, Sean@vividracing.com, or 866-44-VIVID ext.226, I'm here Mon-Sat and have been here for a long time. I am confident that I can solve any issues that may arise.

[empower-auto]

Thanks for the follow-up. We really like the customer service we get from you guys, both consumers on this forum and also myself as a retailer of your product

[Mr.Jay]

Originally Posted by vividracing

Thank you for the comments and good words concerning the dyno numbers, the issue of how they were originally posted, and the effort we've added to attempt to clear the air with our piece by piece steps.

We strive to release power gains to help promote products that are tested in our facility in a truthful manner and to provide additional info to the end user. There is no reason to inflate the numbers and then be "found out" later on as it effects our credibility as a business and would be a disservice to our customers. This is why we took the additional steps to show all components at the time a test vehicle was available.

Your post sounds great and all but please lets not cover up the original incident. Vividracing (not saying you) originally posted up a 40HP gain on a thread for just their exhaust. When the members of the forums started to call them out thats when we found that the car had more mods than just the exhaust as well as getting a "we made a mistake" from Vividracing. This thread is the result of this forum watching out for each other and still gave us some odd numbers with pulley making huge power or all parts of the exhaust making less power than just 2 parts of the exhaust.

In addition I've found most of your site if filled with copy paste info for parts for example the AP headers which have been dyno by a couple people on these forums and showed that it made no power yet the AP shows them as "bolt on power"

I knew of AP before all this and would totally buy from them but after all I have seen from this forum I wouldn't

I'm sure some will have good exp with your guys and get some great parts so please continue on developing parts for our ZN6

[vividracing]

no cover-up necessary, it was all out pandemonium here the moment the "yep, just exhaust parts" was posted and we heard about it. Its in print, and made its launch in to internet glory, the only thing we can do is address the issue and move forward. I am happy that this was brought to our attention and we could take the additional steps we did.

AP headers have been discussed as far as making power with the help of tuning, I do not believe we posted a gain on our dyno sheets.

I understand the issues would have left a bad taste in the mouths of alot of the members and the only solution I have is to clarify

[TwinRz]

Originally Posted by showbe

After looking at other peoples dynos and then going back to there dynos it does look suspicious. Now I understand why all that hate... I remember reading from Perrin and other posters that a light weight pulley wouldnt see gains on a dyno.. why is theres showing gains then?

Their is a 60 page thread on nasioc about AP also. Which is now why I understand why all the hate towards them. People claim they have been banned as a vendor at every major subbie forum. But they should be allowed a fresh start here. Once more people come out with dynos of their products then well see the light. Until then we cant do anything about it but trust them. I for one will be very cautious until then after seeing a lot of people not pleased.. Lots of people have already complained about the fitment which seems pretty common with them.

I did a quick google search and found this thread
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...racing&page=45
Even though its from 2006, even other forums with posts dating 2011 and 2012 say the same thing that is said for many pages in that thread. It sure tells us how shady they are and does answer a couple of mysterious things that has happened. Great reviews in first couple pages. I am not sure when the bad reviews start but other people have directed me towards the end.

I hope more people get more Dynos done so more people dont waste their money on Chinese produced parts that they are probably making a killing off of. Perrin Charges just as much but they are atleast respected in the Subaru community and dont inflate their numbers. You guys should be charging what other companies charge for their knock offs not what a premium company like Perrin does.

Originally Posted by Mr.Jay

Your post sounds great and all but please lets not cover up the original incident. Vividracing (not saying you) originally posted up a 40HP gain on a thread for just their exhaust. When the members of the forums started to call them out thats when we found that the car had more mods than just the exhaust as well as getting a "we made a mistake" from Vividracing. This thread is the result of this forum watching out for each other and still gave us some odd numbers with pulley making huge power or all parts of the exhaust making less power than just 2 parts of the exhaust.

In addition I've found most of your site if filled with copy paste info for parts for example the AP headers which have been dyno by a couple people on these forums and showed that it made no power yet the AP shows them as "bolt on power"

I knew of AP before all this and would totally buy from them but after all I have seen from this forum I wouldn't

I'm sure some will have good exp with your guys and get some great parts so please continue on developing parts for our ZN6

After googling AP/Vivid they are actually banned vendor on almost all major Subaru forums. Its no suprise that other peoples dynos arent showing gains across the whole power band and only up top while they claim that it should be getting 10 hp up top and gains through out the band.

Originally Posted by vividracing

no cover-up necessary, it was all out pandemonium here the moment the "yep, just exhaust parts" was posted and we heard about it. Its in print, and made its launch in to internet glory, the only thing we can do is address the issue and move forward. I am happy that this was brought to our attention and we could take the additional steps we did.

AP headers have been discussed as far as making power with the help of tuning, I do not believe we posted a gain on our dyno sheets.

I understand the issues would have left a bad taste in the mouths of alot of the members and the only solution I have is to clarify

By the time enough people Dyno your products you guys would have sold enough to cover all the costs and make a profit. I love how you guys claim you guys make all your exhausts produced in house then on your site it even says you guys have them made in China. The exhausts probably cost less then 100 bucks to make in China and you guys are selling it for WAY more. Not even a company like Megan or any other knock off company does that and if they do they sure arent around long or liked by many.. Whoever is on that account I bet isnt even being sincere and just saying things that people want to hear.

I find that your light weight pulley to have that much gain on the dyno to be hilarious also. Something obviously isnt right or your just inflating your numbers. So many uninformed posters on this forum and by the time people realize your parts are inflated it will be way too late.

Sure your parts make gains but I doubt it will be at what you guys claim them to make it at. Just like how you guys claim 10+ WHP and gains through out the curve, then a customer of yours posts a dyno showing only 5-6 whp with gains only up top. Its sad to think you guys were given a chance and then you guys would really stoop down at that level. Not even try to gain the trust of the community back with a 2nd chance. This was a way for you guys to truly show you guys changed instead you guys just showed what kind of company u guys truly are. Here to just take money from people who dont know better about you guys. Being banned on one site probably isnt a big deal but being banned on almost every major Subaru forum is. I doubt it will be long before the same happens here with how you guys treat the community. Just look at the replies, no person that is posting/representing their company bashes or argues with its community instead they keep it professional and avoid conflict. While you guys do the complete opposite.

[Supermassive]

Originally Posted by TwinRz

I did a quick google search and found this thread
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...racing&page=45
Even though its from 2006, even other forums with posts dating 2011 and 2012 say the same thing that is said for many pages in that thread. It sure tells us how shady they are and does answer a couple of mysterious things that has happened. Great reviews in first couple pages. I am not sure when the bad reviews start but other people have directed me towards the end.

I hope more people get more Dynos done so more people dont waste their money on Chinese produced parts that they are probably making a killing off of. Perrin Charges just as much but they are atleast respected in the Subaru community and dont inflate their numbers. You guys should be charging what other companies charge for their knock offs not what a premium company like Perrin does.



After googling AP/Vivid they are actually banned vendor on almost all major Subaru forums. Its no suprise that other peoples dynos arent showing gains across the whole power band and only up top while they claim that it should be getting 10 hp up top and gains through out the band.



By the time enough people Dyno your products you guys would have sold enough to cover all the costs and make a profit. I love how you guys claim you guys make all your exhausts produced in house then on your site it even says you guys have them made in China. The exhausts probably cost less then 100 bucks to make in China and you guys are selling it for WAY more. Not even a company like Megan or any other knock off company does that and if they do they sure arent around long or liked by many.. Whoever is on that account I bet isnt even being sincere and just saying things that people want to hear.

I find that your light weight pulley to have that much gain on the dyno to be hilarious also. Something obviously isnt right or your just inflating your numbers. So many uninformed posters on this forum and by the time people realize your parts are inflated it will be way too late.

Sure your parts make gains but I doubt it will be at what you guys claim them to make it at. Just like how you guys claim 10+ WHP and gains through out the curve, then a customer of yours posts a dyno showing only 5-6 whp with gains only up top. Its sad to think you guys were given a chance and then you guys would really stoop down at that level. Not even try to gain the trust of the community back with a 2nd chance. This was a way for you guys to truly show you guys changed instead you guys just showed what kind of company u guys truly are. Here to just take money from people who dont know better about you guys. Being banned on one site probably isnt a big deal but being banned on almost every major Subaru forum is. I doubt it will be long before the same happens here with how you guys treat the community. Just look at the replies, no person that is posting/representing their company bashes or argues with its community instead they keep it professional and avoid conflict. While you guys do the complete opposite.

I don't try to fight other people's fights on the internet but, the amount of conjecture and assumptions in your post is astounding.

The Subaru site banning happened a long time ago but due to the sour taste in a few of the "senior" posters that genuinely had a vendetta out for VR their reputation stuck for years. That being said i am assuming that some of those anti VR sentiments bled over to this site from people who were Subaru owners following the FT86 program. I have yet to hear anyone on this forum who "got suckered into buying a VR/AP product" post a complaint against their products or service. (I may have just not dug in enough but its obviously not an epidemic as so many posters want to believe).

I have been dealing with Vivid Racing since I bought my FR-S, and I have only ever had one complaint but it's not VR's fault that manufacturers cant meet their own delivery dates. I pretty much deal with Sean exclusively and have spent plenty of money with them and will spend more since they are a Seibon dealer.

As for parts made in China, get off your high horse. I can almost guarantee that you have plenty of made in China stuff that works perfectly fine...like your phone, or TV, etc. Many parts manufacturers will prototype here in the states and then when they have a finalized design, will contract a Chinese company to reproduce their design for mass production. This is extremely common practice, and the price you pay is because people will pay a stupid amount of money for something that says "Made in Japan" or "Made in America"...so its only prudent for a company to price their products in the same range, especially if their products show comparable gains...this is called business 101. I'm so sick of the elitism of people who think everything thing made in China is "rip-off" quality. Many Chinese manufacturers make very high quality parts for cheap because of the wages in China. JDM is over hyped, Made in America is only worth it if the product is truly quality. That being said I bought a P&L Turbo kit and full exhaust because they tuned their system for that specific exhaust, sure it will work on any of them but I felt that i would keep as much of my kit the same as what they came up with to make sure I get similar gains.

In summary, Vivid Racing has a bad rap from people with a vendetta, i havent seen anyone come forward with a real gripe against these guys since the FR-S came out, so enough with the bashing, because people who dig up old dirt just seem like petulant children looking to stir up drama. If you have had no dealings with VR in the last few months or years, you have zero credibility. Businesses, like people, change over time.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by Supermassive

As for parts made in China, get off your high horse. I can almost guarantee that you have plenty of made in China stuff that works perfectly fine...like your phone, or TV, etc. Many parts manufacturers will prototype here in the states and then when they have a finalized design, will contract a Chinese company to reproduce their design for mass production. This is extremely common practice, and the price you pay is because people will pay a stupid amount of money for something that says "Made in Japan" or "Made in America"...so its only prudent for a company to price their products in the same range, especially if their products show comparable gains...this is called business 101. I'm so sick of the elitism of people who think everything thing made in China is "rip-off" quality. Many Chinese manufacturers make very high quality parts for cheap because of the wages in China. JDM is over hyped, Made in America is only worth it if the product is truly quality. That being said I bought a P&L Turbo kit and full exhaust because they tuned their system for that specific exhaust, sure it will work on any of them but I felt that i would keep as much of my kit the same as what they came up with to make sure I get similar gains.

For one, here is an example of someone in our community having the SAME problems people over at NASIOC had with them.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20041

(The thread has been updated and the experience deleted as after NUMEROUS attempts, the issue was resolved but still it happened).

Also, the problem is not the exhaust is made in China, like you say there are millions of things being done exactly like this. The problem is their CLAIM everything is done in house in the USA. That is wrong. That is shady and deceiving. Why should I trust a company that is LYING?

Lastly, there are alternatives, and I refuse to support a company that lies blatantly. The Dyno sheets are a comedy. Out of nowhere the person who was dealing with the forums "disappeared", several people have come on claiming they are a new person assigned to deal with this forum. I mean what else do you need to understand they are very shady? I have supported two companies with my car. both of them as transparent as it gets, no nonsense types. Nameless and Perrin. And the next company will be AVO. All three, zero bullshit, zero shadyness, transparent and real numbers.

You OF COURSE are free to do whatever you want with your car. BUT, don't undermine reality. These AP guys ARE shady and unreliable.

[Mr.Jay]

Originally Posted by vividracing

no cover-up necessary, it was all out pandemonium here the moment the "yep, just exhaust parts" was posted and we heard about it. Its in print, and made its launch in to internet glory, the only thing we can do is address the issue and move forward. I am happy that this was brought to our attention and we could take the additional steps we did.

AP headers have been discussed as far as making power with the help of tuning, I do not believe we posted a gain on our dyno sheets.

I understand the issues would have left a bad taste in the mouths of alot of the members and the only solution I have is to clarify

I agree, just saying tho this thread wasn't out of the kindness of vivid racings heart but reluctantly done after being accused of false numbers.

you might want to change the descriptions in the site as it currently reads " Installing the header will not only gain horsepower, it will also change the tone of your Boxxer engine to a deeper and more aggressive sound" I'd hate to see someone buy some 600 dollar headers that don't do anything until the spend more money to tune it


don't like what I've sen but love the number of parts being made for our cars once again

[vividracing]

Thank you for your comments Mr.Jay, I hope that you'd understand we went through this process to help clarify, it would have been 2 days of labor cheaper and a whole lot easier to make a follow up with a "I'm sorry" and comical frowny face but we went through the steps that were deemed necessary.

to Sportsguy83: I have never seen a post that says all Agency Power parts are made in the US, although all FRS parts have been made in house as the demand was there and a fast in-house production was needed. You are welcome to view our production area any time you are in town, lunch is on me.

Per the link you've posted, please review it: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20041
There was undoubtedly an error in communication where the OP ordered an item from another vendor, was promised to be in stock and was actually not available.

(Had these been available Supermassive would have his by now, although he can attest to the MADE IN USA control arms since he ordered them when they were in raw aluminum, has seen them in anodized finish, and is waiting for them to come back from laser etch, like everyone else)

Unfortunately there has been some team members that are no longer with the company and are no longer handling the forum. It's business and its sales, no one has disappeared, no one is off in the corner and afraid to post here.

All in all, I hope that we've helped clients looking for before and after gains with some of the products we list for sale. To help the situation you can stop by your local magazine stand and pick up the latest D-Sport Magazine. http://dsportmag.com/browse/tech/sci...haust-showcase

Multiple FRS systems are listed for a comprehensive rating. Agency Power noted as "most horsepower at 3500rpm" and "the lightest system tested at 25.2lbs" although they dont like the riveted exhaust tips

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