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Old 03-15-2019, 07:13 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by Tangizdope View Post
Facepalm. Dude I've said this so many times now. The 86 can merge just fine from an on ramp. It just requires more work than a 2nd gen Tacoma like op has and like I have.
In socal (southern California) some of our ramps are very short and steep. To top it off. At the very end, about I would say 150 feet of the end of the ramp. There is a stop where 1 car goes at a time. These are meant for when traffic is bad on the highways. But in socal fashion, that's not always the case because nobody really monitors these. There is one by my school where the ramp is short distance, very steep. That one, you to go from a stop to freeway speed because the friggin light is always on when theres no traffic. So very dangerous right? Welcome to socal roads.
So, steep and short ramps equals merges where you have to romp on it or someone will have to use abs on the highway.
That is just one merge tho. In many others, the ramp is just short and steep.
In my case on the other ramps, I am the kind of person who matches the speed of traffic to merge. Many times however, I am going faster. So no I do not stop before a merge which somehow you think I do. Unless there is a light of course.
The main point I'm trying to make is: The 86 does not have trouble merging after an on ramp because of lack of power, it just takes more effort than a 4.0 tacoma with a good midrange, like op has.
Sorry if I'm being mean. I've said this many times already. I understand nobody has time to read through all the posts on this thread though. Even I just read the first page and then posted. But then people started to exaggerate things or not understand my point.
Isn't every MY/trim/spec of the Tacoma slower than the 86 though? Wouldn't that then mean the Tacoma has to work harder than the 86 to get to 60, the opposite of what you're currently suggesting?
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Old 03-15-2019, 07:16 PM   #212
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If you are at 2500 in 1st, you're going like 12mph. Surely by the time you are next to cars going 60 you should be going a bit faster than that... But in any case you are in a low gear so you can accelerate through the torque dip quite quickly.
If you are at 2500rpm in 2nd, you upshifted WAY too soon.

If you are at high rpms in 2nd, there should be no problem as you're up on the torque curve and getting into the power curve.

Maybe it's because I've been tracking for years, but to me it is only natural to keep the revs up when I *know* I have to accelerate. It is no more difficult to shift at 6000+ rpm than it is to shift at 4000-.
I know you can get through the dip fast in 1st. All i'm saying is a tacoma has less trouble if I have to make that maneuver.
I think the problem here is that I'm used to the tacoma having a good low and midrange so it's what I prefer. Many people here like to sit in traffic cruising at 6k in 1st gear and find that okay. I dont do that. I also think that people aren't from socal and don't understand what I'm talking about with the on ramps. I travel a lot and see the distances of other states' on ramps versus California on ramps. It's pretty unbelievable if you are from other states with normal on ramps.
Main point I'm trying to make is that a tacoma has less trouble doing the maneuvers I'm talking about. Remember, op has a tacoma and he might switch to our cars so I'm letting him know as a 2.5 year owner of a frs, that he will feel this car is lacking in the low and mid range.
Main point I'm making is taco vs twins.
I have experience with both vehicles. Many of these forum member are NOT coming from a torquey vehicle. OP is coming from a torquey vehicle. Just letting him know what's up. People just aren't grasping my point.
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Old 03-15-2019, 07:17 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by PetrolioBenzina View Post
I'm starting to think I should go for a drive and look for a torque dip. Is mine broken? I don't seem to have one.
Welp, I figure my FR-S is broken too. If my car has a torque dip, I sure don't notice it -

As far as this merging discussion, I usually find the limitation in merging onto a freeway is the vehicle in front of me! What are they going to do? -


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Old 03-15-2019, 07:19 PM   #214
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Isn't every MY/trim/spec of the Tacoma slower than the 86 though? Wouldn't that then mean the Tacoma has to work harder than the 86 to get to 60, the opposite of what you're currently suggesting?
I'm talking torque curve. Not power in general. A tacoma will launch harder than the twins everytime. Have you driven a 2nd gen tacoma? It's easy to jack rabbit because you accidently give it too much gas from a stop.
A tacoma will beat the twins from a stop, then the 86 will eventually catch up and pass.
EDIT: I see what you mean about 0 to 60 in both vehicle. A tacoma will feel more confident during a tough merge because of the instant power, then it just keeps pulling. It's that initial shove. The 86 gives you anxiety for a split second, and then when you get in the high rpms then you feel confident. That's also where you will pass the tacoma.
But for the twins to beat the tacoma in a 0 to 60, you must drop the clutch at a good amount of rpm.

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Old 03-15-2019, 07:57 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by Tangizdope View Post
The main point I'm trying to make is: The 86 does not have trouble merging after an on ramp because of lack of power, it just takes more effort than a 4.0 tacoma with a good midrange, like op has.
Are we talking manual trans vs manual trans? If Tacoma is an auto, sure it's less effort to just mash the go pedal. If they're both manuals, it is not any more effort at all on the part of the driver to simply shift the FT86 later, when the revs are up.

I've seen this line of reasoning before regarding S2000 and other lower-torque cars that make power up top, that it's somehow harder or more difficult or more effort to just shift later at higher rpm. It isn't! Is super easy!

I'm genuinely puzzled as to *why* people seem to think it's "more effort".
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Old 03-15-2019, 08:09 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by Tangizdope View Post
Facepalm. Dude I've said this so many times now. The 86 can merge just fine from an on ramp. It just requires more work than a 2nd gen Tacoma like op has and like I have.
In socal (southern California) some of our ramps are very short and steep. To top it off. At the very end, about I would say 150 feet of the end of the ramp. There is a stop where 1 car goes at a time. These are meant for when traffic is bad on the highways. But in socal fashion, that's not always the case because nobody really monitors these. There is one by my school where the ramp is short distance, very steep. That one, you to go from a stop to freeway speed because the friggin light is always on when theres no traffic. So very dangerous right? Welcome to socal roads.
So, steep and short ramps equals merges where you have to romp on it or someone will have to use abs on the highway.
That is just one merge tho. In many others, the ramp is just short and steep.
In my case on the other ramps, I am the kind of person who matches the speed of traffic to merge. Many times however, I am going faster. So no I do not stop before a merge which somehow you think I do. Unless there is a light of course.
The main point I'm trying to make is: The 86 does not have trouble merging after an on ramp because of lack of power, it just takes more effort than a 4.0 tacoma with a good midrange, like op has.
Sorry if I'm being mean. I've said this many times already. I understand nobody has time to read through all the posts on this thread though. Even I just read the first page and then posted. But then people started to exaggerate things or not understand my point.

Like I took a whole day to read the entire thread? More effort lol

I've read this over and over and over. The car is slow, can't keep up with traffic, has no torque and on top of that has a giant ass torque canyon!


Sometimes I wonder why anyone here has one


OP get get Miata
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Old 03-15-2019, 08:26 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by Tangizdope View Post
You're over exaggerating it. That always happens whenever someone says anything bad about the twins tho and then it turns into a huge argument.
Let me explain again: If I am at 2.5k in first gear or even second, the lane next to me in going over 60 mph. I want to get into that lane. I floor the accelerator and I have to wait until after the dip to not have heavy anxiety.
Can't downshift if I'm already in first or high rpms second. I know you were about to reply saying "downshift.."
For 30k, many cars are faster than the twins (you didn'tsay sports car). A jeep for example. From a stop and I just floor the accelerator (no clutch dumps) the jeep will be ahead of the twins. Obviously we will catch up and pass. But that initial torque is what makes you feel confident doing that slow to fast lane change. Other cars for 30k and under that are faster would be: wrx, gti, civic, focus st, fiesta st. and again wrangler. I understand those are turbo (except for jeep). But you didn't say what type of engine for 30k.

Also, you pointed out 85 mph. I can use 6th gear to pass easy in our twins.

To recap:
1) Our twins don't have good low to midrange power. But the car is NOT SLOW. People miss this point all the time and get triggered.
2) obviously, 1.5k rpm is overexaggerating. What I'm talking about is from 2.5k to 4k.
3) Yes, this car is a sports car and you have to rev it out. DUH. All I'm saying is that it makes it more difficult to daily than the new mx5 and the taco. Obviously the twins are very fun when you want to have fun.
4) 30k is not that cheap and you can get a lot of cars that will be easier to daily because of better low to midrange power.
5) Nobody is trying to tell everyone on the internet that the car has negatives. We are here to help op in his situation.
People always have to over exaggerate things or take things the wrong way and make it into a huge argument. I normally don't have time for this but 3 hour classes get boring sometimes. So this is more entertaining.
I don't follow. Can you explain a bit more in more depth?
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Old 03-15-2019, 08:27 PM   #218
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Well, it's been fun chaps, but I'm off the the Tacoma forum. From what I understand, it's basically a supercar in mid-sized truck trim. Gotta get me one.

Farewell!
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Old 03-15-2019, 08:42 PM   #219
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Like I took a whole day to read the entire thread? More effort lol

I've read this over and over and over. The car is slow, can't keep up with traffic, has no torque and on top of that has a giant ass torque canyon!


Sometimes I wonder why anyone here has one


OP get get Miata
My main points for the OP was just taco is easier to keep up with traffic, taco has more torque, and taco has stronger torque in low to mid range.
It's a step down for daily driving if all you do is drive in traffic and straight lines. If your commute is curvy, then 86 is perfect. It has lots of room (in terms of my lifestyle), one of the best handlers I've ever driven, and it looks great.
The problem is that people would rather tell everyone to buy a twin, rather than seeing what they came from and telling them the downsides of the twins vs what they used to drive. Then that guy regrets buying one years later and say bad things about the twins.
Most of these people have never even driven a 2nd gen tacoma before yet tells the OP power is great. If OP is already complaining about power before even buying the car, how do you think he will feel in a few years. He comes from a meaty torque curve. You will definitely notice that dip all the time if you have been driving a 2nd gen taco daily.
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Old 03-15-2019, 08:48 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by Tangizdope View Post
My main points for the OP was just taco is easier to keep up with traffic, taco has more torque, and taco has stronger torque in low to mid range.
It's a step down for daily driving if all you do is drive in traffic and straight lines. If your commute is curvy, then 86 is perfect. It has lots of room (in terms of my lifestyle), one of the best handlers I've ever driven, and it looks great.
The problem is that people would rather tell everyone to buy a twin, rather than seeing what they came from and telling them the downsides of the twins vs what they used to drive. Then that guy regrets buying one years later and say bad things about the twins.
Most of these people have never even driven a 2nd gen tacoma before yet tells the OP power is great. If OP is already complaining about power before even buying the car, how do you think he will feel in a few years. He comes from a meaty torque curve. You will definitely notice that dip all the time if you have been driving a 2nd gen taco daily.
I can see people coming here and asking about peoples experiences with the car. BUT, the OP shouldn't take that info at face value. It's up to the individual to test drive the car. Over and over if need be.

I still say the lack of torque is greatly exaggerated.
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Old 03-15-2019, 08:51 PM   #221
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Well, it's been fun chaps, but I'm off the the Tacoma forum. From what I understand, it's basically a supercar in mid-sized truck trim. Gotta get me one.

Farewell!
Tacoma has meatier torque vs 86. Never called the taco fast. Just easier to drive daily. You just put words into my mouth.
Whatever, killed time while in my general ed classes anyways.
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Old 03-15-2019, 08:53 PM   #222
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think the biggest issue is what people think about high engine revs. I have heard it from my friends before, oh I don't take it to the redline because it makes the engine work too hard and thus hurts my car. One friend even told me they never tried because he wasn't aware that there is a hard limiter and figured he could over rev the engine by mistake. If Toyota & Subaru didn't want users to be going to 7400 rpm, they would have lowered the limiter..
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Old 03-15-2019, 09:00 PM   #223
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I can see people coming here and asking about peoples experiences with the car. BUT, the OP shouldn't take that info at face value. It's up to the individual to test drive the car. Over and over if need be.

I still say the lack of torque is greatly exaggerated.
He test drove the car and already noticed the dip. I only really notice the dip when coming from my tacoma if I drove it a lot that week.
You won't notice that dip that much unless you have driven a car with a meaty torque curve.
If you come from a car that you have to wring out, then you are used to it and like it
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Old 03-15-2019, 09:53 PM   #224
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I came from a 6.8 liter FD RX-7. It had a pretty meaty torque curve...
Having to keep revs up in order to accelerate in the BRZ doesn't bother me, and neither does the "torque dip". If I need to *really* accelerate, I am nowhere near the dip anyway. I only find myself in the "dip" rpm range while I'm at ~50% throttle or less. And in that context it's really not a big deal.
I can see that if someone regularly had to all of a sudden accelerate hard *immediately* and it wasn't foreseen, that they could be frustrated. But I seem to always know well in advance and upshift accordingly...
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