More confirmation from Toyota on next gen 86

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

Everyone is crying for more power and I just want a 2,500 pound 86

Damn that would be amazing, all else being the same.

Originally Posted by JesseG

-a bump of 40 or so horsepower with the 86, IMO, still leaves a big performance gap between the two cars.

- Subaru wanted to turbo the car from day one.

Now that we know the base Supra outside the US has 190hp (but more TQ), adding 40hp to the 86 isn’t likely to happen, it’ll make the base Supra look bad on the spec sheets. I can see them bumping it to 225.

Subaru does not want to turbo the BRZ. It’s a very un-Subaru car and they don’t want it pulling people away from the WRX/STI.

[radroach]

@sunami88 I've heard of recycled prius batteries being re-purposed for solar / wind storage

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by JesseG

Well, of course Toyota is smart enough to realize the 86 would benefit from more power. And still retain all of its wonderful driving dynamics. I agree they don’t want to encroach on Supra territory. The Supra is the halo sports car now. BUT, a bump of 40 or so horsepower with the 86, IMO, still leaves a big performance gap between the two cars. This is just my opinion, but I think many current owners of a twin would trade up for the same car with more HP and a full warranty. Damaging my car is the main reason I would never turbo it. Subaru CAN absolutely set up the FA20 to accomplish this.
TBH I’m shocked Subaru hasn’t given the middle finger to Toyota and released their own more powerful BRZ. It has to be a Japanese business agreement keeping them from doing it. They wanted to turbo the car from day one.

It may all be a pipe dream, and I love the 86 now as much as any car I’ve ever owned. I understand it’s purpose, I understand it’s specialty in the world of cars.


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it won't get more power.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQNGUzDgzmI&t=61s[/ame]

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Now that we know the base Supra outside the US has 190hp (but more TQ), adding 40hp to the 86 isn’t likely to happen, it’ll make the base Supra look bad on the spec sheets. I can see them bumping it to 225..

@Yoshoobaroo you aren't the only one on here that has said this over the last 7 years, but I just don't follow the logic. I just don't think you can argue that they don't want car X to look bad by making car Y more powerful, and at the same time argue that Toyota makes other cars that will outperform the 86 from 0 to 60.

If I look at the full line-up on someplace like zeroto60times.com what I conclude in the the end Toyota just doesn't care about racing stats. It doesn't really sell any of their cars (including the Supra or the 86).

[Lakitu]

I feel like this car doesn't need more horsepower, it just needs more torque to get going. Once it's going, it's going. (and pretty quick past 5th gear in 4K RPMs, for me, at least that's easily 60-70mph) but 1st through 3rd are rough... can boil a pot of water in the time it takes to get moving. The extra displacement will surely help give it a little kick off the line and maybe the hype for getting a turbo thrown into it will die down a bit.

[Cole]

Originally Posted by Lakitu

I feel like this car doesn't need more horsepower, it just needs more torque to get going. Once it's going, it's going. (and pretty quick past 5th gear in 4K RPMs, for me, at least that's easily 60-70mph) but 1st through 3rd are rough... can boil a pot of water in the time it takes to get moving. The extra displacement will surely help give it a little kick off the line and maybe the hype for getting a turbo thrown into it will die down a bit.

Yup. A bump in torques down low would be all the twins really need.

I own an AT and really don’t do all that bad in autox against manual twins, and even much more powerful cars. Once the car is going, it’s pretty great.

[Adam_L]

At best it may go 2.4L NA in 2-3 years, but hey it's a bump. Price will also increase, most likely

Tada : that guy is a enigma wrapped in a riddle …. of sorts . I get it , he doesn't want to give away the real deal 411 , but could at least give hints as to what is up next, what their focus is.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by sunami88

This is so OT I should probably post it on it's own (or not at all), but has anyone found a decent study on how these electric car batteries are being recycled/trashed? I can't find a single study one way or the other that doesn't have massive, glaring flaws- often in the opening paragraph

[rant]
I feel like if we're all switching to this new tech, this answer should be super easy to find. Many of them want to compare how much power from an ICE is lost via the transmission etc- but my point is that's everyone's baseline. It's irrelevant to compare against mechanical breakdown, oil consumption, etc on an ICE when all I really, really want to know is what happens to an electric car battery after it's been totally used up. e.g. Where exactly does wasted electrolyte end up? How much of it? What about the bits of the battery that aren't valuable and can't be recycled, per se? Again, how much of a battery's makeup is just toasted after it's service life is over? No ifs ands or buts.
[/rant]

tl;dr
If you think you've got a link to a non-biased study, please post it here or PM me. I'm genuinely curious (dad drives a Volt, we argue-*AHEM* talk about this often).

this seems to pop up in the news every few years, people panic, dig deep, news reports come out, then it falls off the map again.

as radroach said, i've heard rumblings of converting packs to home storage units, but haven't heard of anything mass produced, or any serious recycling motivations of late.

i know there's a diy movement centered around repurposing tesla equipment, so much that the components are worth quite a lot on the secondary market stripped of the damaged car, but that's about it.

[Bluefire98]

I think the car needs excitement from it's engine. That's what it's lacking right now, especially when compared to a car like the s2000. A nicely tuned, howling v6 or a turbo 4 with a kick in the pants when it spools, even if both options yielded the same 0-60, would make this car that much more of a riot and would likely shut up all the auto journalists. The 718 Cayman for example, is way faster than the previous 981, but most people like the older engines better anyway because of the sound and feel. A n/a k20 or h22a4 in the frs would be more exciting, despite being just as powerful as the fa20. Not that the fa20 is bad. I actually like it more than the engine in the nd miata as far as character is concerned. A more exciting, and preferably still tuneable, engine is all this car really needs.

[new2subaru]

This is an entry level sports car and nothing is going to change that. I wouldn't expect anything too dramatic in a “refresh” if anything at all.

ETA I amazed they pulled off what they did for the selling price.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by JesseG

Well, of course Toyota is smart enough to realize the 86 would benefit from more power. And still retain all of its wonderful driving dynamics. I agree they don’t want to encroach on Supra territory. The Supra is the halo sports car now. BUT, a bump of 40 or so horsepower with the 86, IMO, still leaves a big performance gap between the two cars. This is just my opinion, but I think many current owners of a twin would trade up for the same car with more HP and a full warranty. Damaging my car is the main reason I would never turbo it. Subaru CAN absolutely set up the FA20 to accomplish this.
TBH I’m shocked Subaru hasn’t given the middle finger to Toyota and released their own more powerful BRZ. It has to be a Japanese business agreement keeping them from doing it. They wanted to turbo the car from day one.

It may all be a pipe dream, and I love the 86 now as much as any car I’ve ever owned. I understand it’s purpose, I understand it’s specialty in the world of cars.


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They designed the FA 20 from the ground up for this car. If they wanted or felt it needed a 250hp engine it would have had it from the start.

[JesseG]

Originally Posted by soundman98

it won't get more power.

Tada-sensei is the best When I hear him talk I think “yeah the 86 doesn’t need more power, it needs more lightness!” And really that is always a great way to make a car feel more fun and alive. The Mazda MX5 usually edges out the 86 to 60mph, despite being 40 some horsepower less.


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[JesseG]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

They designed the FA 20 from the ground up for this car. If they wanted or felt it needed a 250hp engine it would have had it from the start.

Fair enough, and the rumors of Subaru being baffled about Toyota wanting a NA engine could have been misinterpreted. In Subaru land, sports car = turbo. Not including the Impreza 2.5 RS

I will be quite happy upgrading a few things on my car, adding a little induction and exhaust noise. And I will be smiling every time I get in it.


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[Adam_L]

Originally Posted by Adam_L

At best it may go 2.4L NA in 2-3 years, but hey it's a bump. Price will also increase, most likely.

I meant to add, even if they were to make this change, the GT86 MPG will surely decrease by 5-8% , or roughly 3mpg. I know, it's a sports car , you may/ may not care about MPG. However I'll bet Toyota and Subaru care about MPG, and they have to keep the EPA content by meeting their strict guidelines of average MPG per fleet of vehicles.

I don't see Tada , Toyota, or anyone from Subaru coming to the microphone speaking on behalf of this fact , but it's a very real important phenomenon. Where are all the hybrid Trucks / SUV's ? The technology is there, utilize it.