Almost made a $15k mistake...

[Vracer111]

Originally Posted by totopo

or you know... for the same price you can basically buy a corvette... and maintain the factory warranty.

Keep in mind I'm not being 100% serious with this reply...

But then you'd own a GM. And it would be a vehicle that would be slower in every measurable aspect along with being less exciting to drive...along with being as common as a Camry or Accord. FR-S and BRZs are as common as Tesla's in my location... in that, on average, I see as many Tesla's as I do Twins daily...

Who cares about factory warranty when the car came with an underdeveloped powerplant to begin with that there seems no true fixes for? The hybrid Subaru motor/Toyota fuel system is the main issue with the 86 reliability... If you have the funds, going to a proven, moderate performance level LS V8 with minimal weight gain will be an improvement in reliability. Even uncompleted, the FRS engine bay looks nicer with an LS V8 than the corvette's does these days (GM has zero clue how to package engine bays without making them cluttered and UGLY, and they just keep getting UGLIER and messier looking):



Latest from GM school of Engine Bay (can you distinguish the friggen engine in this picture from the rest of the engine bay?):

Why would you ever want to lift the hood to look at that?! I'd be buying hood pins with locks just to make sure an innocent person didn't have to suffer that sight....

That's why I prefer Japanese cars to american one...the engine bay philosophy. Japan's most complicated performance car makes it look like GM hired toddlers to package engine bays:



But that leaves a thought to ponder, what would the GTR engine bay look like if it were done by GM...

[tennisfreak]

@Vracer111

LOL if you think under the hood of a GTR is nicely engineered. It's jam packed like a friggin sardine can.

When I saw one up close I though holy mother of god it would suck to have to work on this thing.

[ajc209]

Originally Posted by totopo

and it has 80% more torque

Not at the wheels. You have to consider gearing when looking at torque and also at what revs the torque is generated.

[Pkush]

Originally Posted by Vracer111

Just set aside money and in a few years time give these guys a call when their LS conversion kit is ready...

http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/Projects...8839&k=t45GCwQ

400hp/400lbft, ~2800lbs and similar balance to stock - all worked out and perfected by utmost respected professionals known for impeccable attention to detail that is second to none...Texans too. Should be fun - retain the agility of the FR-S but with the ability to flat out beat a Corvette into the ground!

http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/Projects...JFgLn&lb=1&s=A

Didn't know our trans was 5 speed

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by paros28

I also test drove a 370z before buying the BRZ. The problem I have with the 370z is: what do I do with all that power under the hood? I don't track and most of my drives are in town - stop light to stop light with speed cameras all over the place. The only place where I can use some of that power is the on-ramp merging into the freeway. However, once on the freeway, I can only go as fast as everyone else (at the legal speed limit). I guess it's also nice to be able to talk about all the power under the hood to impress others. But in the final analysis, it was not worth the extra money to me.

Well said! This is how I feel about many of the "look at this HP it is so fast brooooo" cars that people push as strictly DDs.

[Porcupint]

Originally Posted by paros28

I also test drove a 370z before buying the BRZ. The problem I have with the 370z is: what do I do with all that power under the hood? I don't track and most of my drives are in town - stop light to stop light with speed cameras all over the place. The only place where I can use some of that power is the on-ramp merging into the freeway. However, once on the freeway, I can only go as fast as everyone else (at the legal speed limit). I guess it's also nice to be able to talk about all the power under the hood to impress others. But in the final analysis, it was not worth the extra money to me.

Hell even in the BRZ I've got more power than I need for on ramps considering I can usually hit 90+ no problem.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Well said! This is how I feel about many of the "look at this HP it is so fast brooooo" cars that people push as strictly DDs.

But those 0-45's bro! 15 mph crawl in traffic bro! Hoosiers for my DD bro!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Porcupint

Hell even in the BRZ I've got more power than I need for on ramps considering I can usually hit 90+ no problem.



But those 0-45's bro! 15 mph crawl in traffic bro! Hoosiers for my DD bro!

Yah dude I like shaved .0002 seconds of the half block from my laneway to the stop sign and .003 seconds off my 2 hour commute.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by paros28

I also test drove a 370z before buying the BRZ. The problem I have with the 370z is: what do I do with all that power under the hood? I don't track and most of my drives are in town - stop light to stop light with speed cameras all over the place. The only place where I can use some of that power is the on-ramp merging into the freeway. However, once on the freeway, I can only go as fast as everyone else (at the legal speed limit). I guess it's also nice to be able to talk about all the power under the hood to impress others. But in the final analysis, it was not worth the extra money to me.

So having more power is a problem for you? Why didn't you just buy a Miata or MRS?

[LucidMomentum]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

So having more power is a problem for you? Why didn't you just buy a Miata or MRS?

I think it's less about being a problem and more about being reasonable.

Do I need a Supercharger? Not at all. I really don't. There are very few times I would really get to fully, 100% open it up.

There are very few times I get to open the stock FR-S up 100%. Even on my favorite drive up to kernivlle via granite road, I'm doing about 40-50 mph average due to the curves and the altitude.

However, it's a blast and I can do that on those roads where most cars and trucks would be taking the road at 20-30 mph average.

Power creep is a dangerous game, and you can go from budgeting for a FR-S to buying a Corvette if you keep that mentality.

If I couldn't afford to save for a SC, I wouldn't even complain. But I can, so I may get one. Do I need it? Not at all. But it might be nice to have some more power and torque. But keeping the car stock doesn't mean being handicapped. It's a great car for the money.

[D.Scrye]

I think the Z is a nice looking vehicle with very respectable specs. What worries me about it is the notorious overheating issue, and the fact that, even on the Nismo version, the stock brakes are crap after a few hard stops (read this for the funtastic story of how the C&D guys had an interesting... time with that: http://www.caranddriver.com/features...-lightning-lap [yes, I know it's an old article]). I know that most people will never experience these issues, but it really rankles that the top trim level still needed/needs more hardware to perform the way it is expected to.

TLDR- I like the car, but would be pissed if I had to go aftermarket for things that should have been non-issues stock.

[Porcupint]

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling

Yup, the Z is overweight and the engine isn't amazing. The Nissan S14/S15 are still the closest thing to a BRZ/FRS to this day. Most everything else has downsides if you want that sort of car. Of course, S14/S15 downside? Old, needs work put in. S2000 and RX7 are close, but on a higher level handling-wise (front-mid engine and double wishbones). S2000 downside? Still needs forced induction to be genuinely fast, convertible doesn't work for some people, many parts are expensive, etc... RX7 downsides? Unreliable, gas guzzler to the extreme, about the same price as a used S2000 while being significantly older, etc.

Every car has downsides, but those are my absolute 4 favorite cars for the money when it comes to being both fun, RWD, and offering high performance potential for the money.

Miata is great for a cheap toy too... but it, too, has downsides. Power, chassis rigidity (in older models), convertible again, etc....

Best thing to do it get a 240 and drop a VQ in it.

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by Porcupint

Best thing to do it get a 240 and drop a VQ in it.

I'd rather maintain balance & lightness with a built SR + VET VVL head conversion.

Or if I just wanted torque for burnouts and drifting I'd rather have a 2JZ or LSx. haha.

I'm in the process of rebuilding my S14 as an S14.5 right now. Haven't decided for sure what engine to go with yet though...

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by totopo

I really don't understand why every time the 370z comes up, the "it's heavy" circle-jerk starts almost immediately. Whenever anyone talks about other cars, it doesn't come up nearly as frequent. The 370z is actually pretty light for its torque and drivetrain layout... It's like people don't know the actual weight of cars.

modern cars:
370z: 270 ftlb / 3280 lbs
wrx: 258 / 3270
bmw z4 (28): 260 / 3260
bmw z4 (35): 332 / 3549
bmw m235: 330 / 3530
c7: 460 / 3300
C7 z06: 650 / 3524
Golf R: 280 / 3340
Audi TTS: 258 / 3260
Ferrari FF: 503 / 4145
EVO X MR: 300 / 3570


You need to go to the MR/RR to find cars considerably lighter
cayman s: 273 / 2910
911 carrera: 287 / 3200
exige: 295 / 2590
evora 400: 302 / 3120
X-bow: 310 / 1870

Compared to all of the other Japanese tuner cars I mentioned, it IS heavy. The Z (350/370) is more of a muscle car. I consider it to be the Japanese Mustang. It's built more to the tastes of Americans than the Japanese.

When it comes down to having a built engine with forced induction and full aftermarket quality suspension, it could never compare to a Miata/S2000/RX7/240sx (with SR20)/FRS/BRZ/etc.... It just won't. It's not the same style of car. It's built on the same platform as luxury sedans and it's easy to tell that.

[Strife26]

Originally Posted by Vracer111

Keep in mind I'm not being 100% serious with this reply...

But then you'd own a GM. And it would be a vehicle that would be slower in every measurable aspect along with being less exciting to drive...along with being as common as a Camry or Accord. FR-S and BRZs are as common as Tesla's in my location... in that, on average, I see as many Tesla's as I do Twins daily...

Who cares about factory warranty when the car came with an underdeveloped powerplant to begin with that there seems no true fixes for? The hybrid Subaru motor/Toyota fuel system is the main issue with the 86 reliability... If you have the funds, going to a proven, moderate performance level LS V8 with minimal weight gain will be an improvement in reliability. Even uncompleted, the FRS engine bay looks nicer with an LS V8 than the corvette's does these days (GM has zero clue how to package engine bays without making them cluttered and UGLY, and they just keep getting UGLIER and messier looking):



Latest from GM school of Engine Bay (can you distinguish the friggen engine in this picture from the rest of the engine bay?):

Why would you ever want to lift the hood to look at that?! I'd be buying hood pins with locks just to make sure an innocent person didn't have to suffer that sight....

That's why I prefer Japanese cars to american one...the engine bay philosophy. Japan's most complicated performance car makes it look like GM hired toddlers to package engine bays:



But that leaves a thought to ponder, what would the GTR engine bay look like if it were done by GM...

People in my small town don't even know what a brz is half the time. Lots of jaws dropped when they see its a Subaru haha. Even the one other person who owns one doesn't know much. She said ya the Subaru has the turbo model but scion didn't...
I just think dude is on the wrong forum as hard as he's pushing the z. This isn't the z forum.