FRS/BRZ vs E46 M3

[MattQ-WP]

Thanks dude Yeah that was a monster build back in the day I still love the E46 as a platform but it has definitely aged.. will always be one of my favorite cars but I am SO excited about the possibilities of the 86.

I recon the M3 is a better car out of the box, but the 86 is a MUCH better platform for modifying.. the M3 was simply too expensive as a modders car.. the last engine build alone cost me more than my FT86!!

So anyhow.. I will be modding the Toybaru SIGNIFICANTLY... but I'm currently in R&D!!!

[MattQ-WP]

Thanks Tanuki

Have you read "Villa Incognito"??

[Tanuki]

Originally Posted by MattQ-WP

Thanks Tanuki

Have you read "Villa Incognito"??

I have not. Secret Town?

[///Murph]

Went from E46 ZCP to FR-S.....

It is such a downgrade.

Taking a loss on the FR-S and getting a E92 M3 like I should have done.

[Tanuki]

Originally Posted by ///Murph

Went from E46 ZCP to FR-S.....

It is such a downgrade.

Taking a loss on the FR-S and getting a E92 M3 like I should have done.

Why post on the forum if you hate the frs so much? I really think I am 6's between my e46 and the FRS. They are both good in their own ways. An e46 is only a good car while it has low miles.

[MattQ-WP]

Originally Posted by ///Murph

Went from E46 ZCP to FR-S.....

It is such a downgrade.

Taking a loss on the FR-S and getting a E92 M3 like I should have done.

It's not a downgrade... it's a side grade.. it's a totally different car... the BMW brand is trying to expand more and more into the US and so the cars are getting bigger, fatter and more comfy to accommodate the US market

(sorry guys, not a nice fact but you are the...er.. "heaviest" people on the planet on average)

The Bimmers of old (E30, E36, E46 to lesser extent) used to be much more driver oriented cars but with the E90 series onwards, there is more and more focus on all round DD as apposed to driver focus.

VW made the same mistake with their GTI's and only recently go them back to the Mk1 and Mk2 status symbol level they once were...

So Bimmer is going through it's fat and middle aged period as a manufacturer where it is trying to cram more and more space, comfort, daily usability and safety into it's cars... the net result for enthusiast drivers is that the cars are becoming less like track day playthings and more like boats, or mercedes's.

For some this is desirable and it's not a good VS bad clear cut thing... that's why I say you have SIDE-GRADED and not DOWN-GRADED.... you basically purchased a red-head when you should have purchased a blond

The new M3 is certainly a more comfy all rounder, but as for being as fun as an 86... hmmm.. I dunno...

I've been doing regular and aggressive track driving for nearly 2 decades now and the E90 M3 doesn't feel "on edge" and exciting until I push it to the very limit of my ability...on the street it's just plain boring (unless you enjoy straight line speed in which case get a muscle car rather)

The 86 by comparison gets me grinning from as low as 60km/h... I can even get it powersliding at road legal speeds...and THAT is a driver's car!!

[///Murph]

Originally Posted by Tanuki

Why post on the forum if you hate the frs so much? I really think I am 6's between my e46 and the FRS. They are both good in their own ways. An e46 is only a good car while it has low miles.

I dont hate the FR-S. It could have/should have been so much better. It feels cheap. Now if I dumped about $10k into it and replaced the horrible stock exhaust/wheels/tires/antenna/sound system/and SC or turbo'ed it, I think I would love it.

The way it is now, just feels so unstable when you are at speeds higher than 75mph.

[///Murph]

Originally Posted by MattQ-WP

It's not a downgrade... it's a side grade.. it's a totally different car... the BMW brand is trying to expand more and more into the US and so the cars are getting bigger, fatter and more comfy to accommodate the US market

(sorry guys, not a nice fact but you are the...er.. "heaviest" people on the planet on average)

The Bimmers of old (E30, E36, E46 to lesser extent) used to be much more driver oriented cars but with the E90 series onwards, there is more and more focus on all round DD as apposed to driver focus.

VW made the same mistake with their GTI's and only recently go them back to the Mk1 and Mk2 status symbol level they once were...

So Bimmer is going through it's fat and middle aged period as a manufacturer where it is trying to cram more and more space, comfort, daily usability and safety into it's cars... the net result for enthusiast drivers is that the cars are becoming less like track day playthings and more like boats, or mercedes's.

For some this is desirable and it's not a good VS bad clear cut thing... that's why I say you have SIDE-GRADED and not DOWN-GRADED.... you basically purchased a red-head when you should have purchased a blond

The new M3 is certainly a more comfy all rounder, but as for being as fun as an 86... hmmm.. I dunno...

I've been doing regular and aggressive track driving for nearly 2 decades now and the E90 M3 doesn't feel "on edge" and exciting until I push it to the very limit of my ability...on the street it's just plain boring (unless you enjoy straight line speed in which case get a muscle car rather)

The 86 by comparison gets me grinning from as low as 60km/h... I can even get it powersliding at road legal speeds...and THAT is a driver's car!!

You are right about BMW getting away from their roots, especially with the M series. Was disgusted that they actually made a Sedan M3 (thought thats what M5's were for). If I had it my way I would be driving a 1 Series M but know that will never happen.

BUT, the E92 is still an impressive car, especially with a V8 that is lighter than the I6 the e46 had.

I will eventually buy another e46 though even if I get an e92. The e46 is hands down the most balanced car I have ever driven,

(I have not driven the e36 or 30 yet unfortunately)

[MattQ-WP]

The E36 was a bit unbalanced but could be tuned into a complete monster and fairly cheaply too (post 2001)

The E30 was arguably one of the nicest track cars ever built and the E30 M3 was simply sublime... think the Golf GTI Mk2 but with rear wheel drive and BMW grunt... ZERO electronic nannies and the sort of connection with the road that allows you to count the ribs of the squirrel you just rode over with your arse cheeks

[Tanuki]

Sedan M3's aren't a new thing.



The M3 does continue to get bigger and more bloated. I still prefer the E46 to any of the M3's though.

E30-

E36-

E46-

E92-

[///Murph]

LOL at the examples.... True.

Ive seen some E92's that have had none of the fancy "packages" installed, no GPS, no DCT, carbon roof, etc etc. Still some purists in the E92 class if you still want to call them that.

I may go from a E92 back to the E46. Theres still some low mileage ones out there. Believe I saw one with 4k miles on it for sale in NC. Have no clue how someone could own that car and not drive it.

[Tanuki]

Yeah there are some garage queens still. Mine had 82k miles when I sold it. So still had some life, was still gorgeous, but I commute 70-80 miles a day, and that wasn't going to help the M3 keep the miles down low.

[vobla6.0]

Originally Posted by ///Murph

You are right about BMW getting away from their roots, especially with the M series. Was disgusted that they actually made a Sedan M3 (thought thats what M5's were for). If I had it my way I would be driving a 1 Series M but know that will never happen.

BUT, the E92 is still an impressive car, especially with a V8 that is lighter than the I6 the e46 had.

I will eventually buy another e46 though even if I get an e92. The e46 is hands down the most balanced car I have ever driven,

(I have not driven the e36 or 30 yet unfortunately)

I think the sedan and coupe E36 weigh the same, while the E90/E92 sedan and coupe have a 20 lb difference. There is nothing to be disgusted about knowing that BMW had intentionally preserved the weight going from two to four doors. The sedans are also more stiff than the coupes...
And if you want to track the E36... you can have one piece bucket seats and still can have usable back seats with the sedan....

For me if I was out to buy the E36 M3, Id have the sedan

although cars are getting heavier and more electric ladden, BMW has no intention of dropping their heritage. You can even see that from the non M-models... the rear seats in my e46 sedan are so useless that miniature people start whining and complaining when I give them free rides... to which I reply "I didnt buy this car for the back seats, deal with it"... which is either followed by them shutting up or getting out of the car.

As for this thread and for me.. right now I cant compare the two...
To me there is an immense advantage of buying a used car associated with the fact it did its depreciation....
If Im shopping for a car:
I want a car... I buy a car... and then I get financially raped by the consequences... but at least i get the car I want

And like I said earlier.... my biggest complaint about my E46 are the back seats, and by no means the maintenance and reliability, it is a reliable car.

Maintenance again, cant be compared now, as one is new and on a warranty, while the other one is used... sure Ive met many owners of the E46 M3 who had a fair share of problems, but throughout my overall experience, this car comes out pretty reliable in the grand scheme of things

The FRS.... is purely guessing right now....maybe it will be more reliable once the problems the first year owners are looking at are sorted out... but maybe it will be plagued by the camshaft CEL nightmare and other issues faced by current owners... maybe there will be problems with suspension wear as these cars clock up miles, because all that light weight comes at a price of less stiff control arms.... no one knows.... it is a running experiment right now

So based on this I would chose the E46 M3 if i was shopping for a car now....
for me it is a no-brainer.

But in 10 years the twins will be used cars, well known by the automotive communities, selling for much less than 25 or so grand... and luckily, appreciating (If cars'll get even fatter, h*ll that will be the case)...and that is when I would love to get one... in addition to my would be E46 M3... and if anything turns out to be a specific pain in the ass, I would be able to go aftermarket/ and or engine swaps on the FRS rather than piling money on money by throwing out a brand new engine, gearbox, and suspension

And just as an off topic remark, Id rather have an E39 M5 than an E46 M3....
even though Id surely get banned for indulging in such a lard ass car and being a member of this community

[Tanuki]

Just for kicks, I thought I would post this quote from my friend with an E92 Sedan, who recently drove my car:

"After driving your car for 10 minutes i can honestly say it was one of the funnest cars i have ever driven."