BRZ and FR-S Sales Numbers Thread

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Quentin

Yup, joint ventures are pretty much required to make a sports car these days.


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Not really. Using a very broad definition of "sports car" there are several ways to make them.


Make a real sports version but also have much lower trim levels that the masses buy (Mustang, Camaro, Challenger)


Make that your specialty and don't worry about volume (Maserati, Porsche, Bentley)


Make a halo car and not worry about making any money at all on it (Nissan, Acura, Viper)


The only joint venture on the 2016 list of "Sporty" cars is the Twins. Also interesting to note that although they do not reach Mustang levels of production (99.9% of which is a base model) they are well up on the list as far as total numbers. Combined they are in the top ten as far as volume goes. Do people really want them to hit Corolla or similar production numbers and reach a point where we are tripping over them everyplace?

[Grady]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Not really. Using a very broad definition of "sports car" there are several ways to make them.


Make a real sports version but also have much lower trim levels that the masses buy (Mustang, Camaro, Challenger)


Make that your specialty and don't worry about volume (Maserati, Porsche, Bentley)


Make a halo car and not worry about making any money at all on it (Nissan, Acura, Viper)


The only joint venture on the 2016 list of "Sporty" cars is the Twins. Also interesting to note that although they do not reach Mustang levels of production (99.9% of which is a base model) they are well up on the list as far as total numbers. Combined they are in the top ten as far as volume goes. Do people really want them to hit Corolla or similar production numbers and reach a point where we are tripping over them everyplace?

Yet another reason I would never buy a Mustang, Camaro. Not bad cars just to many of them out there.

I would have to add the 124 and the Miata as a twin.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Grady

Yet another reason I would never buy a Mustang, Camaro. Not bad cars just to many of them out there.

I would have to add the 124 and the Miata as a twin.

Oh good call! I missed that one.

[Quentin]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Not really. Using a very broad definition of "sports car" there are several ways to make them.


Make a real sports version but also have much lower trim levels that the masses buy (Mustang, Camaro, Challenger)


Make that your specialty and don't worry about volume (Maserati, Porsche, Bentley)


Make a halo car and not worry about making any money at all on it (Nissan, Acura, Viper)


The only joint venture on the 2016 list of "Sporty" cars is the Twins. Also interesting to note that although they do not reach Mustang levels of production (99.9% of which is a base model) they are well up on the list as far as total numbers. Combined they are in the top ten as far as volume goes. Do people really want them to hit Corolla or similar production numbers and reach a point where we are tripping over them everyplace?

What companies are doing with $80k sports cars isn't really relevant in the context of the BRZ and 86 -- which would have been implied when I said what I said. Miata and 124 are joint ventures, BRZ and 86, Supra and Z4/5. Joint venture is becoming the name of the game for a dedicated platform sports car unless you have the following like Mustang/Camaro where you can move 150k units a year or you can charge $60k+ like the Euro manufacturers.


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[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Quentin

What companies are doing with $80k sports cars isn't really relevant in the context of the BRZ and 86 -- which would have been implied when I said what I said. Miata and 124 are joint ventures, BRZ and 86, Supra and Z4/5. Joint venture is becoming the name of the game for a dedicated platform sports car unless you have the following like Mustang/Camaro where you can move 150k units a year or you can charge $60k+ like the Euro manufacturers.


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Joint ventures have always been there. They are not new nor a growing trend.


My point was very clear that joint ventures are certainly an option just not the ONLY option as seems to be being stated.

[HKz]

the fact that the Lexus RC and the twins combined sales were nearly identical shows what kind of a market the US is.. also quite amazing how the wrx/sti have held up despite being on nearly the oldest platform out of that list..

worldwide sales for all those models would be interesting as i would imagine the twins have held their ground in the smaller and underdeveloped markets.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by HKz

the fact that the Lexus RC and the twins combined sales were nearly identical shows what kind of a market the US is.. also quite amazing how the wrx/sti have held up despite being on nearly the oldest platform out of that list..

worldwide sales for all those models would be interesting as i would imagine the twins have held their ground in the smaller and underdeveloped markets.

Hard to find info but I did come across this interesting tidbit.
Hard to read but apparently in the first quarter this year the GT86 was the top seller for the segment in Italy of all places.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Hard to find info but I did come across this interesting tidbit.
Hard to read but apparently in the first quarter this year the GT86 was the top seller for the segment in Italy of all places.

So am I reading this right that about 36% of all 86 sold in the quarter represented were sold in Italy? (2053 of 5580 units)

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

So am I reading this right that about 36% of all 86 sold in the quarter represented were sold in Italy? (2053 of 5580 units)

It really doesn't explain this very well.


http://carsalesbase.com/global-car-sales-2017-q1/


It certainly does not jive with this:


http://carsalesbase.com/european-car...a/toyota-gt86/

[HKz]

interesting, guess not everyone in italy can afford a rari or lambo

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

High output NA 4 cylinders are a thing of the past. If there is a 2nd generation 86 it will probably use either a small displacement engine with a turbo or hybrid tech.

Originally Posted by HKz

not going to happen for a little while for toyota. toyota is still investing in their na engines, look at the newest camry. plus, i think toyota feels less pressure when competition like the newest civic si only pushes 205 hp. i get that torque figures are a bit better but even so it isn't really much faster than the fa20.. the 86 and miata will stay na for a while. if the base bmw-supra gets a turbo 4 and costs around $40 K, why would toyota care to repeat this onto the 86?

Soooo....you see that new GR concept?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

Soooo....you see that new GR concept?

Well he did say "a little while". No GRs on the lots just yet.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Well he did say "a little while". No GRs on the lots just yet.

My comment was more of a joke than anything, but my original comment referred to the second generation of 86. A new generation wouldn't be released immediately after a large refresh like the MY17 anyways.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

My comment was more of a joke than anything, but my original comment referred to the second generation of 86. A new generation wouldn't be released immediately after a large refresh like the MY17 anyways.

So was mine!