Aggressive fast shifting

[PandaSPUR]

In which direction is the jerk?

If car jerks forward (you get pushed into the seat), give less RPM when you shift.
If car jerks backwards (you get pushed forward), give more RPM when you shift.

[JD001]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

This. Or at least don't let the revs drop to far. If you are jerking that bad then the revs are way too low.


I hate trying to tell people how to shift in print but here we go.


The biggest problem I have seen over decades of teaching people how to drive MT is that they do each step as a separate operation. This takes time and allows revs to drop. When shifting things occur in fractions of a second so you need to be fast yet smooth.


The steps are:
Relax foot on accelerator
Depress clutch
Move shift lever
Let out clutch
Give gas


If you do each of these separately and take even a 10th of a second for each step you have now reached 1/2 a second in which the revs have gone way down.


It should be ONE step with each action taking place at the same time as the one or even two before it.


To have a smooth shift the step really should be:
Relaxfootonacceleratordepressclutchmoveshiftleverl etoutclutchgivegas


As you are letting up on the gas you should be already pushing the clutch and moving the shift lever all at once. This way your revs are not dropping and you should be fast enough that by the time the clutch actually hits the floor you are already in gear, letting it back up again and pushing the gas.


The second biggest issue I observe is people grabbing the shift knob and trying to manhandle it into gear. By grabbing the knob you are making your wrist, elbow and shoulder joints part of the linkage. Since those joints are not always in the same position they you are actually fighting the lever and this again can cause a brief delay that throws all the other steps out of sync. Don't grab the shift knob just pull it or push it with an open hand or a couple of fingers. It will slide into place much faster that trying to direct it using half your body.


Don't know if any of this makes sense and although I could show what I mean in about 15 seconds if sitting in the car with a live body I have a hard time putting it in words.


Final note. The most fearful part of learning MT is the fear of learning MT. Don't overthink things and worry about hurting the tranny or clutch. They are far more durable than people give them credit for and although if you screw up really, really bad you could cause catastrophic failure the odds are anything you do to them while learning will just reduce the life span from 5 years to 4 years and 360 days.

Another thing that helps is cupping the gear knob with your hand, for 1st and 2nd palm facing away from the driver (if driving a RHdrive car) and when moving to 3rd, 4th etc then palm towards the driver (if driving RHdrive car). This helps to place subtle pressure on the gear knob helping to move the lever to the correct plane ready for next gear.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by JD001

Another thing that helps is cupping the gear knob with your hand, for 1st and 2nd palm facing away from the driver (if driving a RHdrive car) and when moving to 3rd, 4th etc then palm towards the driver (if driving RHdrive car). This helps to place subtle pressure on the gear knob helping to move the lever to the correct plane ready for next gear.

That is what I meant by pushing and pulling. The grip positions are a whole other topic. I have pretty pictures and everything.

[Stang70Fastback]

One simple thing I want to add. When driving normally, you can shift smoothly with no jerking. When driving spiritedly, you can still shift relatively smoothly with no jerking.

However, when you're driving balls out, you don't really have time for "smooth shifts." If you really are talking about just balls-out, full-throttle acceleration through 2nd gear, then you kinda-sorta do just aggressively move the shifter from 1st to 2nd (no need to SLAM it into 2nd, but just a very quick shift), and then you don't quite POP the clutch, but almost. You get a chirp from the wheels because you are NOT rev-matching, and are instead allowing the drive-train to aggressively slow the engine.

Just wanted to point that out. After a certain point, shifts ARE violent by the nature of what you're trying to accomplish. However, 99% of the time you're driving the car, if your shifting is violent, you're doing it wrong.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback

One simple thing I want to add. When driving normally, you can shift smoothly with no jerking. When driving spiritedly, you can still shift relatively smoothly with no jerking.

However, when you're driving balls out, you don't really have time for "smooth shifts." If you really are talking about just balls-out, full-throttle acceleration through 2nd gear, then you kinda-sorta do just aggressively move the shifter from 1st to 2nd (no need to SLAM it into 2nd, but just a very quick shift), and then you don't quite POP the clutch, but almost. You get a chirp from the wheels because you are NOT rev-matching, and are instead allowing the drive-train to aggressively slow the engine.

Just wanted to point that out. After a certain point, shifts ARE violent by the nature of what you're trying to accomplish. However, 99% of the time you're driving the car, if your shifting is violent, you're doing it wrong.

After 44 years of driving MTs (and plenty of that in an aggressive manner) I still manage to do this every once in a while. It takes such a tiny fraction of a second miscalculation or hesitation to do it. All it hurts is my pride.

[JD001]

I think we are now slowly creeping into race car areas.. Taking your DD on to the track and crashing through gears is not a good thing if your are mechanically sympathetic and want to drive your car back home.


A street car is not a race car and obviously a race car is not a street car and the mechanics reflect this.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by JD001

I think we are now slowly creeping into race car areas.. Taking your DD on to the track and crashing through gears is not a good thing if your are mechanically sympathetic and want to drive your car back home.


A street car is not a race car and obviously a race car is not a street car and the mechanics reflect this.

But everybody here drives their car at 10/10 all the time don't they?

[spike021]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

After 44 years of driving MTs (and plenty of that in an aggressive manner) I still manage to do this every once in a while. It takes such a tiny fraction of a second miscalculation or hesitation to do it. All it hurts is my pride.

I did this the other day.

Except I also stalled like 3 seconds later for the first time in 2-3 weeks!

Shit happens!

[spike021]

Originally Posted by JD001

In the UK if a driver learns to drive in an AT and takes the driving test in an AT then that is all they are allowed to drive. To drive a MT the driver must first pass their driving test in a MT.


I trust this is different in the States as I'm reading loads of posts about drivers struggling to drive a MT when transitioning from an AT to MT. Some of the stuff discussed is basics that a driver in the UK would learn if they started in a MT as their instructor would take them through the basics otherwise the driver just would not get their license.

Here in the states the license is combined. So if you get it at all then you're fine to drive either transmission.

For me personally I learned to drive using cars that had ATs. It was quite the change getting used to shifting for me but it's not an unbreakable barrier by any means.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by dostoyevsky

So I have a question, this cars my first manual and how do you shift quickly and fast when racing or gunning it and be smooth? ..............

Oh, just don't shift fast. Where are you going in such a big hurry anyway, that a fast shift is going to make any significant difference..??

The only place that comes to mind is on a drag strip, where you are racing another car just like yours ....... and just how many times is that going to happen .. ?? In that case, you have won or lost the race coming off the line .... before you even shift out of first gear ......


humfrz

[cat94]

I had a similar question a few days ago and @VTEC answers it pretty well.

If you shift from first to second as fast as possible, the engine doesn't have enough time to slow down and your wheels will spin when you drop the clutch in second. I don't think he means jerk as in engine rpm is too low for second.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by cat94

I had a similar question a few days ago and @VTEC answers it pretty well.

If you shift from first to second as fast as possible, the engine doesn't have enough time to slow down and your wheels will spin when you drop the clutch in second. I don't think he means jerk as in engine rpm is too low for second.

That is certainly another possibility but I don't believe that is what they are doing based upon their description.


EDIT! I just reread it and what I read first time around as "If I let drop" is actually "If I DON'T let drop" so yes @VTEC had the right answer! I feel so foolish now. What I said before still applies though since either revs too high or revs too low both will give you issues. Need to get all the parts of the shift together for it to be smooth.

[Xxyion]

Originally Posted by spike021

Here in the states the license is combined. So if you get it at all then you're fine to drive either transmission.

For me personally I learned to drive using cars that had ATs. It was quite the change getting used to shifting for me but it's not an unbreakable barrier by any means.

haha i had the opposite. All my cars i learned in were MT and my first car was a MT. When i had to drive my friends AT i actually accidentally threw it into 1 and nearly blew up his car lol. Also had the issue where my clutch foot would accidentally hit the brake.

But after driving cars for 16 years now i can drive both just fine.

[dostoyevsky]

Yes, VTEC understood me correctly! Thanks guys