08-20-2016, 08:28 PM | #99 |
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Oh - you still here? The real reality is that the J swap has already been proven effective in S2000s and Miatas, but somehow it's folly in your precious twin, because it hasn't been done yet. That's fine if you can't get your head around it. Like I said before, engine swaps aren't for everyone, especially if you have to do everything with your wallet instead of your brain, and they quite clearly aren't for you unless someone else has already proven they can work. Much like forced induction on the FA20 because the CR is too high, or the LS is a big nasty American boat anchor, or the 1UZ will never fit or work properly, etc. Oops - I guess all that stuff DOES work...hmmm. Good thing the people who got those to work didn't listen to people like you, or else the aftermarket for this platform would be like Mercedes. BTW, I'm replying to your trolling not because your comments have any value whatsoever, but because you, yourself, are the very thing that stifles creativity and sharing knowledge on forums. Congratulations on making this place just a tiny bit worse. Last edited by venturaII; 08-20-2016 at 08:47 PM. |
08-20-2016, 08:38 PM | #100 | |
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08-20-2016, 09:21 PM | #101 | |
...Just add nauseum
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Turns out, he didn't want any information in the first place, as he ignored all the information that was presented, and continues to ignore any valid point that he can't argue with. For example, when told that no other 60 degree v6 has fit without major modification due to height, the response wasn't "oh, I suppose I should measure it, and then figure out if / what I need to change to make it fit," no. The response was a mix of denial, ignorance, and sociopathic rage. This means the coversation can't move on to any of the other specific information he needs, because he has no specific information, refuses to collect it. When somebody offers it, he considers it a personal attack. The thread is 8 pages long. We could have done a real feasibility check and have an A - Z list of exactly how to do the swap by this point, but that's not what OP was interested in doing. It seems he was just seeking approbation, and he didn't find it.
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08-20-2016, 09:34 PM | #102 |
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And yet here you are, still adding nothing of value..
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08-21-2016, 11:24 PM | #103 | ||
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And yes, I am aware that 340hp is more than 300hp, but my point is that there are other swaps that provide better bang for your buck, and a better base to start your build on. Nearly everyone says their initial goal is 300hp; then they live with it for a while and want more. If you're staying NA, you reach a point of diminishing returns around 340whp with the J. It's good power - don't get me wrong - but it's pricey to get there. Most that say they are there don't have dyno graphs to back it up, and those that do spent A LOT of money doing so. I'm confused...are you referring to me? If you look through the thread, I was the one that took an old J block and lined it up with the FR-S transmission while I was replacing my clutch. I wanted and planned this swap out, but when I ran the numbers, it just didn't make sense. This swap is entirely possible. A transmission adapter and a new clutch can certainly be made to mate the J to the FR-S tranny. But I really don't think it's worth it, which is why I scrapped the idea. I also had my doubts that the transmission would be up to the task. It's no secret that I do like the LS, however I think it's a bit "lazy" for this chassis. I also like the 2J, but the iron block is a turnoff. Truthfully, the 1UZ appeals to me more than both, however you're still kinda tapped out for NA power. Quote:
I'm not looking for a fight, I'm just speaking my mind. I love the J, even for all it's quirks. It sounds good, it's reliable when built properly, and surprises a lot of people with what it's capable of. But I don't think it's a great use of money for a motor swap into this chassis. With that said, I'd still love to see it happen, but with someone else's wallet lol
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08-22-2016, 12:18 AM | #104 |
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So, my 300 bhp ceiling is there for several reasons, one of which being it opens up a lot more interesting options than the standard LS swap recipe. J motors are cheaper and more plentiful than any LS motor you'd actually want (at least, where I am..), to boot.
I doubt the transmission will grenade with the J in front of it, assuming you don't drive like a 17 year old. Same goes with the axles. There are people who've broken them with relatively stock FAs, and there are people (likely FAR more than those who've had problems) who've racked up tons of miles with much more boosted power and torque and have had no issues. I tend to think it's more an issue of how you drive. I'm looking to the Miata/S2000 community for input in this area (Miata especially) to gauge the need for these upgrades, and there doesn't seem to be a pressing need for it. Same goes for cooling. Sure, upgrading is additional insurance (especially if you're going to be tracking it regularly), but how much it's needed on the street seems to be a bigger question. Certainly the stock units will last for a reasonable amount of time and allow upgrading at your leisure, rather than it being a necessity. All this is why my 300 bhp cap and this motor has been chosen. Oil pan/pickup and headers (and motor mounts...lol).. are not terribly concerning for me. I've fab'd plenty in the past and I don't expect this to be much different. Intake is a bigger question, as I haven't done one yet, but the extent of modifications is unknown yet. Another issue you brought up is engine setback...as you mention, it'd be nice to get the engine a few inches further back, but if using the stock 86 transmission, then you'd need to come up with something clever in the shifter department. Not that it can't be done, but it's more fab work. Plus then, that'd require a shorter driveshaft, etc. So for the sake of economy and simplicity (which is kind of the whole point of this particular swap), leaving as much as possible in their original location is preferable. As you say you love the J motors, I too think the LS is a great motor. It's just overkill for this application, given the criteria above. Maybe as they become a more popular swap and there are more refined and comprehensive solutions available, the cost will come down enough to offset the additional upgrades required, but then again, that'll also just drive up prices of LS motor/transmissions, since there will be ANOTHER platform and community trying to scavenge them. Last edited by venturaII; 08-22-2016 at 12:29 AM. |
08-22-2016, 02:03 AM | #105 |
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I had an acura TL with the J32A2 motor with headers, intake, pulley; that motor would pull crazy hard, it would walk Audis and Mustangs with ease on the highway. I drove it like I stole it and after 150k modded miles it still idled smooth as when it was new, the car understreered like mad though and needed a better tranny, i went through 3, i felt like i could have beat on that motor for at another 100k and it would just beginning to need any major maintainance
A well done fa20 sc or tubro setup with catch cans, oil cooler will easily hit 5k for parts. I think it would be a cool option to have if swap could be achievable in that range, also the j32a2 sounded delicious, the engine bay was full of angry tigers Last edited by varora; 08-22-2016 at 02:05 AM. Reason: grammer |
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10-22-2016, 08:56 PM | #106 |
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In case anyone is still interested in more information about a J swap I'm in the middle of one for my Miata. I actually got rid of my BRZ a couple years ago to build this project. So if any inquiring minds have questions I'll try to keep up on answering them to the best of my ability.
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11-02-2016, 01:32 PM | #107 | |
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11-21-2016, 09:21 AM | #108 |
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I know the honda v6s prettty good and it is a $ per $ common sense. The blocks you want would go for around $1500-2500 used. You still have to build them to hold more than 400hp. Have to find the right block to fit starter etc etc.
Plus until recently and maybe still they were a pos to tune unless spending on a full standalone. So if you are going to do ALL that...why not make life easier for the money and just throw an LS in and call it a day. This is coming from a guy that is a purist and like stay with the brand of engine in a brand of car. Now if someone is serious I can get you some measurements.
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11-21-2016, 10:33 AM | #109 | |
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Why does everyone assume a swapped motor needs to be 'built'? A 3.2 J motor right out of the boneyard with a quick reflash and headers would be close to 300 bhp. That's all I want. The tuning and integration with the 86 system is another story, but I'm assuming there would be similar solutions available as what are developing within the LS swap community. Dunno yet. And if you feel like sharing dimensions of whatever parts you happen to have, I'll never say no to that. lol Last edited by venturaII; 11-21-2016 at 01:09 PM. |
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11-21-2016, 11:53 AM | #110 |
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[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iduRc9MvRdA"]Project Toyonda K86 - Supercharged K24 FRS Build Series - Intro And The Plan - YouTube[/ame]
Follow this channel if you guys want updates. The owner of the car is a friend of mine and i will be helping him much of the progress. I'ts not my youtube channel so this is not a plug. He's working on a K-Series swap to his FRS. Thats all I can say for now. Don't want to spoil it. As far as progress. Idk how detailed the youtuber will cover the swap but right now the car is completely stripped of everything down to its shell. EDIT: This project is estimated to be a year. It really depends how much work needs to be put in or how much we actually want to work on it. lol. |
11-21-2016, 12:18 PM | #111 |
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11-21-2016, 01:01 PM | #112 |
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