2017 Toyota 86 - new name, styling, and more power

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Mr.Impreza

Really appreciate your post on this. Thanks for taking the time to write such a long reply. It was great to read it and makes me open my eyes in a different way. It's very true what you say.

You know, i guess because I've lately been on this forum and looking at youube comments that my mind sometimes begins to think that nobody else is buying these cars and if they are, they are on this forum haha!

I also agree with price point, this is a cool car that anybody could technically enjoy! No wonder many automatics get sold also!



Very true also, agree 100%

Glad you see what I mean since many do not.

and...

Wait there is more (I know some don't agree with this either):

The "declining sales" can be a bit of a trap as well when looking at this type of car. Of course the first two years were bigger since it was new and shiny and there were no used ones around. You wanted one, you bought new. End of story. As you go into years 3 and 4 then people are trading because it wasn't what they thought, their situation changes (remember the target demographic for this car tends to end up with babies) and the real biggy, leases come to an end. This brings a pile of cars up on the used market in a real hurry and relatively all at once.


Now here is the shocking news. The manufacturers KNOW THIS WILL HAPPEN! They are not fools and plan for reduced volumes to be made during this period. Yes new car sales are down but unless they have a massive lot hidden away someplace they are selling what they make. New prices have remained stable and even increased a little each year and this is another indicator that they are selling according to plan.


Look at the Aztec or Caliber as examples of cars that were being made and not selling. There were 1,000s in storage yards and you could pick up brand new ones for way under dealer cost they were so desperate to get rid of them. That is what happens when there are true declining sales due to an unpopular vehicle.


Now will the sales go up with the new facelift? I doubt they will rise much from where they are now if at all. Toyota/Subaru does not care if they rise though. These are not their bread and butter cars and they barely make anything on them. These are cars that are simply intended to promote the brand and attract media attention that is it and god knows they do that well. I hope to hell they do not start reaching Camry or minivan volumes (Chrysler Windsor pumps out 72 minivans an hour for 3 shift a day and 6 days a week) because then they will be lost in a sea of the same car. I for one am more then happy with the limited numbers made.

[nikitopo]

Fact is that they abandoned their original view. The other direction could be to go more lightweight and offer some carbon parts. This could be done in the current platform. You don't have to wait for the new platform. They could provide a hardcore line with mechanical differential and a more aggressive setup. They could offer after-market services and educate new drivers. They could open the race events to more people. This was the intended direction with the first generation. Market is something that you can create, but if you have an argument and the correct product.

[akyp]

Originally Posted by Mr.Impreza

I'm wondering, anybody know how sales are for our cars in Europe/Asia?

Here I think they've stopped promoting the car since late 2013 / early 2014. Prices have slowly crept up over the years despite the free-falling Yen (!). I don't think they'll bother bringing in the refreshed model. In fact it's possible they don't even have brand new ones on the lot anymore.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Toyota thinks that they will get more buyers by adding more features, but they are still behind from competition. Check for example what Kia pro_cee'd GT offers. Fact is that they abandoned their original view. The other direction could be to go more lightweight and offer some carbon parts. They could provide a hardcore line with mechanical differential and a more aggressive setup. They could offer after-market services and educate new drivers. Open the race events to more people. This was the intended direction. Market is something that you can create, but if you have an argument and the correct product.

I humbly disagree.
Their intended direction was a street car that could be used for track purposes not a race car that can be used on the street. This is an important difference. The market for a hardcore line as you described is very limited and they said from day one that they designed the car so that people that were after that could turn to the aftermarket. Opening up race events is not going to sell more cars to Joe Average but steering wheel controls and nicer interior trim will. I do not feel they have abandoned the original view so much as broadened it to try to draw more people in.
As to comparing to the Kia I have no idea what the sales volumes are on it but doubt it exceeds the 86/BRZ worldwide. Besides it is comparing apples to aardvarks really.

[rastapete]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Yet in reality that is exactly what it is. A low cost car (forget all the sports car stuff for a second), good on gas (when driven normally), easy to drive (I mean to just drive like an average person) and quite reliable (moisture in tail lights and crickets do not make it unreliable). All it lacks for many is gadgets, a bit softer ride and some soundproofing. HMMMM it feels like I have heard about those changes someplace.


Oh and many marketing surveys have shown that the number one factor on deciding on a new car is "does it come in the colour I want"! Not RW/FW/AWD, not horse power, not even number of doors but freakin' colour! Once again the crowd on the forums are the exception not the rule.

May be "econo", but it's no box.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by rastapete

May be "econo", but it's no box.

Well a very nicely shaped box at least. The sort of box nice things come in.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I humbly disagree.
Their intended direction was a street car that could be used for track purposes not a race car that can be used on the street. This is an important difference. The market for a hardcore line as you described is very limited and they said from day one that they designed the car so that people that were after that could turn to the aftermarket. Opening up race events is not going to sell more cars to Joe Average but steering wheel controls and nicer interior trim will. I do not feel they have abandoned the original view so much as broadened it to try to draw more people in.
As to comparing to the Kia I have no idea what the sales volumes are on it but doubt it exceeds the 86/BRZ worldwide. Besides it is comparing apples to aardvarks really.

I don't really care if they put some steering wheel controls and if they try to broaden their appeal. This could be done even with an upgraded trim level. If this is what certain people like and if this can increase sales, then it is fine for me. However, they abandoned the hardcore trim level. This happened back in 2015. I was just lucky enough to live in Europe, where they offered this trim level, and buy it just before this abandonment. So I have a car 120 pounds lighter from the factory. It might not sound too much, but weight and power multiply. By just changing the catback exhaust, I can have a car with an actual power to weight ratio similar to a WRX car. And also a much better handling because of the low weight. Of course, whoever wants he can turn to aftermarket. But this can be expensive and not all of us want to modify heavily our cars. Besides, in some countries it is not very easy and it can be even illegal according to regulations. What I was expecting with the revised model was to offer something similar or even something better. Maybe TRD/STI will do it. Who knows, let's hope ...

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I don't really care if they put some steering wheel controls and if they try to broaden their appeal. This could be done even with an upgraded trim level. If this is what certain people like and if this can increase sales, then it is fine for me. However, they abandoned the hardcore trim level. This happened back in 2015. I was just lucky enough to live in Europe, where they offered this trim level, and buy it just before this abandonment. So I have a car 120 pounds lighter from the factory. It might not sound too much, but weight and power multiply. By just changing the catback exhaust, I can have a car with an actual power to weight ratio similar to a WRX car. And also a much better handling because of the low weight. Of course, whoever wants he can turn to aftermarket. But this can be expensive and not all of us want to modify heavily our cars. Besides, in some countries it is not very easy and it can be even illegal according to regulations. What I was expecting with the revised model was to offer something similar or even something better. Maybe TRD/STI will do it. Who knows, let's hope ...

We don't know what versions will be offered for Europe yet. They may still have a stripped down spec one. We have always been monospec over here so not a big deal. They did say they might give us more options next year though.


How much power are you getting out of a cat back that 120 pound difference and it equals a WRX?

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

We don't know what versions will be offered for Europe yet. They may still have a stripped down sec one. We have always been monospec over here so not a big deal. They did say they might give us more options next year though.


How much power are you getting out of a cat back that 120 pound difference and it equals a WRX?

Maybe his cat back has a turbo built in like the STS kit ha ha

[bcj]

I got mine specifically for DD commute.
Changes at work meant I was committed to a twice daily ferry trip across the water.
The boats have a price break for tiny cars under 14ft. The FRS slides under that by 0.5in.
Before, I was using a motorcycle for the most part, but I wanted something warmer and dryer.

Once I noticed the overall length, I bought my FRS the next day. Because not raceboat.
And 33.4avg.

Then the company moved my job to Alabama. Retired early.
Now I have a slow tinycar to drive on my days off.

[Gyzm0]

Not very fond of the black plastic crash bar at the front, reason why I prefer the GT86 front bumper to the BRZ, but to each their own. I do appreciate if the enlarged bumper allows more air flow to cool down things though.

Putting that aside I would maybe get the revised tail lights, the head-unit IF it's capacitive instead of resistive, and the new wheels IF they're lighter. Other than that I'm happy as it is.

Everything seems a direct replacement to current parts so hopefully you can just do a checklist of what to change and what to keep to suit your preferences. Good.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

How much power are you getting out of a cat back that 120 pound difference and it equals a WRX?

Fujitsubo RM is an option. It saves 26 more pounds and they say that it adds +3.5 hp on wheels. Again it is not too much, but as mentioned power is "multiplied" if you are much lighter.

[Kiriana]

I have to say even as a new owner of a FR-S I was super excited to see the changes and slight revamp... Was being the major word here, I am sadly disappointed with the new front end and headlights. Toyota why did you take away my red stitching and clutter up my sexy steering wheel??? Thank you for that 5 Hp upgrade, that i won't even notice 50hp would have been lovely... Just saying. With my complaints listed I do have to say that I love the new tail lights and wheels very sexy. As for the name change I have to agree that FR-S 86 would have been nice really wanted to keep that name.

As I said I am a new owner of a older FR-S but I love this car!

[Ashikabi]

Originally Posted by Kiriana

I have to say even as a new owner of a FR-S I was super excited to see the changes and slight revamp... Was being the major word here, I am sadly disappointed with the new front end and headlights. Toyota why did you take away my red stitching and clutter up my sexy steering wheel??? Thank you for that 5 Hp upgrade, that i won't even notice 50hp would have been lovely... Just saying. With my complaints listed I do have to say that I love the new tail lights and wheels very sexy. As for the name change I have to agree that FR-S 86 would have been nice really wanted to keep that name.

As I said I am a new owner of a older FR-S but I love this car!

Oh shit woman number 3 on the forum! Welcome. Glad you're enjoying your new car.

Be sure to check the stickies and search before asking or everyone freaks out. Especially that @Tcoat guy. He's a real monstrosity