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Old 04-20-2016, 05:05 PM   #1
etc
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$600 Brake retrofit, Cadillac ATS brembos, STI rotors.

Since I don't see any posts about it thought I would share here. A new budget option for larger brakes on the 86.

Calipers:
Cadillac ATS Brembos, $80-$150 each, new (price fluctuates widely on amazon).
AC delco:
172-2586 172-2586
and
172-2587 172-2587

Four 42mm pistons.
Shares pads with the camaro ss and CTS-V so pad choice is high.
Roughly 7-8lbs per caliper, (didn't weight, sorry).

Rotors:
04 STI rotors 12.8in.
afaik the largest non-custom rotors you can get for our car.
Centric blanks are $89/each, lots of options for two piece.
22lbs per rotor, for one piece.

Brackets:
$200 kit here:
http://www.ctsvbrakeswap.com/subaru-...er-bracket-kit
(I have no association with them, I was actually in the process of working up my own bracket for camaro ss calipers when I found their site).
** There is a caveat here, these brackets require drilling one of your mounting holes to a slightly larger size (9/16).

Comparisons:
vs stock:
Gain an inch in rotor size, gain significant thermal mass.
Gain 7mm in rotor thickness.
Gain 5lbs per rotor if you stick with one piece, this is unavoidable for a larger rotor.
Lose 6lbs per caliper, assuming stock is 14lbs.

vs STI brembos:
Since the pistons are symmetrical you don't have issues with upside down mounting, simply mount with the bleed valves up and you are fine.
Cost, these are far far cheaper for same brembo quality.

vs 300zx swap (http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/nis...r-frs-brz.html)
Calipers are brand new, no rebuilding or questionable parts.
Piston sizes closer to stock, this leads to a closer to stock pedal feel. 300zx is 40.5mm, ats is 42mm, stock is 42.8. Since we use a larger rotor though this means that the brake bias is shifted further forward 73.1 ats, 70.1 300zx, 69.7 stock.
Brembo calipers vs nissan calipers. Brembo's reputation for great brakes is hard earned.

Not a great writeup but thought I would get the word out.

If you want detailed install instructions you can download them from the bracket manufacturer: http://www.ctsvbrakeswap.com/subaru-...and-parts-list . They are quite detailed and include part numbers for everything you need.

I do roughly 8 track days a year and the stock brakes held up pretty well once I switched to xp10s. But they still get very hot and I would like a little more thermal mass. These also look much nicer.

Here is a pic of them installed, I painted them using vht caliper paint and stencils (http://www.eagleday.com/bobrst.html).




Here is a pic of the back with the bracket.


More pics, mostly of painting: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...ctZnBPQjlfa09R


See this thread (http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...14#post2894514) for a matching rear set to bring the bias back in line, also will bring the overall specs close to the '17 BRZ PP brembos. Only slightly off because the rear calipers are 5mm farther outboard from the hub.

Last edited by etc; 04-19-2017 at 01:23 AM.
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Old 04-20-2016, 05:07 PM   #2
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Here is a quick writeup of painting the calipers with vht paints and what I would do differently if I were doing it again.

First step is you prep the calipers. These are oem brembos and they don't give the same level of finishing as aftermarket (and nicer oem like porsche) calipers so they still have a rough cast finish and some grey paint on them. I took some different levels of steel wool and worked the finish over to smooth it out a bit. This worked well but the finished result is not completely smooth. The paint is not very thick and not self-leveling so the finish at this point will be roughly what the final finish will be.

Then take masking tape and mask everything. Completely cover the pistons and their boots (This area is covered by pads so too much masking wont hurt here). Mask the bolts on the back, mask the hex-head plug opposite the bleed valves. I took out the valves at this point and and stuffed the holes with rolled up paper, that way you get consistant paint behind where the valve stem would be.

Now clean them with some solvent, I used mineral spirits, to get all oils off of it. From this point forward DO NOT TOUCH the calipers unless you are wearing latex gloves. Finger oils will effect the paint.

You can then hang them somewhere, I used a old ladder, and apply several primer coats following the instructions on can. So two light coats and one medium/heavy. Then apply the base color using the same can recommended technique of two light coats and one medium/heavy. Be sure to look at the calipers from every angle here to ensure that you have complete coverage.



At this point I let the paint dry for a day. Then you apply the stencil, it goes on like any vinyl decal just be sure of your placement and centering before you push it on fully. It is actually pretty easy to work with and you can reposition it multiple times until you push down fully.

Then you tape some thing larger to the edge of the stencil mask the rest of the caliper. I used some brown masking paper but you could use a bag as well. Follow the can painting instructions again with two light and them medium/heavy coats and you will get good coverage. You now need to wait for it to dry but not cure (according to the stencil instructions).



The can says it dries to the touch in one hour but not to use it until three hours, I took this to mean that one hour was dry and three hours cured. So after one hour carefully peel off the stencil. This will leave the loop in the middle of the brembo logo and the middle of the e, this is why the vinyl stencils are needed here, a normal paper stencil would have to connect these pieces to the rest of the stencil. I took a razor blade and used it to peel (from the middle, stabbing with the edge of the blade) those remaining pieces.



Then cover the whole thing with a clearcoat. This part is optional, the finish is a bit glossier if you do though.

Now is the tricky part, this paint requires curing in an oven or it is not very hard and not solvent resistant (very bad since brake fluid will get on it). I found a youtube video, but lost the link, of a guy doing this with a box lined with aluminum foil and a heatgun. This is the approach I took as I don't want to get these fumes in my house (I have a 6 month old baby) or in my oven.

For this you will need: a cardboard box, a bunch of aluminum foil, a bbq grill thermometer (not a meat thermometer), and a heatgun. Line the box with aluminum foil, cut a hole at the top-side for the heatgun, I think you want to make sure the gun isn't actually blowing on the calipers as you may overheat one spot this way. Put the thermometer on the bottom opposite side to get a decent idea of min temp. Then simply turn it on, the speed this heats up in very impressive and I am able to get to 400f with this setup (note: 400f takes a while to get to, it will get to 250-300 easy but it will take an additional 10min to get the last 100f). You will have to turn it on/off to maintain the temperature.




Thats it, if I had it to do over again I would consider:

If you wanted a better final finish before you paint you could now also work them over with a wirewheel in a dremel or drill and get a truly smooth finish, you could also grind down the casting lines in the tops/bottoms of the calipers to get a great finish (you don't see this on car though).

I used a mix of vht flameproof and vht caliper paint. The flameproof is good to 2000f and the caliper is good to 900f. The caliper should be plenty though and I would just use that if possible. The problem with the flameproof is curing is much harder to do. The caliper paint only requires you to cook at 200f for an hour than cool, the flameproof on the otherhand requires 30min at 200, 30min at 400 and 30min at 600. The last one is the killer as I couldn't get my "oven" over 400f, so I just skipped that step.

Last edited by etc; 04-22-2016 at 12:57 PM.
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Old 04-20-2016, 05:13 PM   #3
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any other shots on car? I was really following their testing/build of this setup (the caliper bracket people who made this possible).
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Old 04-20-2016, 05:15 PM   #4
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Wow. Sub'd to this thread for future info
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What are you talking about? You just killed one of the worst brands in history according to enthusiasts. People will be worshipping you like sheep.
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Old 04-20-2016, 05:19 PM   #5
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sub'd :o
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Old 04-20-2016, 05:25 PM   #6
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Is there anything in particular you would like to see?

Unfortunately I was running low on time when I actually mounted them and just did it quickly in one night so I didn't take a bunch of pics but I could grab some. Especially if I can manage it with the car on the ground.
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Old 04-20-2016, 05:34 PM   #7
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Curious about the brake force distribution now.
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Old 04-20-2016, 05:36 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etc
Rotors:
04 STI rotors 12.8in.
afaik the largest non-custom rotors you can get for our car.
Centric blanks are $89/each, lots of options for two piece.
22lbs per rotor, for one piece.
Thanks for the write-up!

Do you have links for 2 piece options that you found. Trying to get an idea of cost and weight differences.

Also any idea as to how much this affects F/R brake bias?
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Old 04-20-2016, 05:40 PM   #9
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Ya that was the more info I was going to add. Using the calculator on the 300z swap site I ran the numbers, but left that at work

Basically it is shifted forward slightly by the larger rotor and larger brake pads. And offset back rear slightly by the 1.6mm loss in piston size, lower hydraulic force.

From what I remember stock was something like 69.8, this is something like 70.1.

I am working from home this week watching my son but when I get back next week I will update with the actual numbers.
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Old 04-20-2016, 05:46 PM   #10
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300ZX.

No such car as the 300Z. This is such a huge pet peeve of mine.
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Old 04-20-2016, 05:57 PM   #11
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no dust shield?
what wheels are you using to make this fit?
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Old 04-20-2016, 06:30 PM   #12
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no dust shield?
what wheels are you using to make this fit?
I dropped the dust shield, the install instructions (which are quite good btw) say you can trim the dust shield to make it fit but I opted to just drop it.

I am running 18x8 tsw nurburgrings, can't say if they would fit the stock wheels. I assume it would be similar to the sti brembos.
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Old 04-20-2016, 06:56 PM   #13
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wow, the price point is extremely appealing for all 4. especially since there's no need to flip the bleed screws and is straight bolt on. I am definitely interested in how well this compares against other premium BBK's in the market for our car. the price point already puts it ahead by miles lol
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Old 04-20-2016, 07:04 PM   #14
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wow, the price point is extremely appealing for all 4. especially since there's no need to flip the bleed screws and is straight bolt on. I am definitely interested in how well this compares against other premium BBK's in the market for our car. the price point already puts it ahead by miles lol
Just to be clear this is only for the fronts. The rears would remain stock with this setup.
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