Major engine Failures - one year overview

[BRZnut]

Originally Posted by Justin.b

I just had my '13 towed to the Scion dealer with what I suspect is a catastrophic engine failure. I will know more when the tech gets to look at it on Monday. The car is an early production '13 that we picked up in July '12 and has just under 40k miles on it.

I heard a nasty crunching sound, check engine light came on. The just about every other light came on. Engine stalled. I coasted it into a parking lot.

The engine won't start. The engine does turn with the ignition key turned to start (I thought the clutch / flywheel may have blown up) but it seems to spin without much resistance. There is no sign of engine internals becoming external and the engine oil level seems fine. With no gaping holes in the block and no real knocking when I crank it over with the key, I'm thinking this is going to be something in the heads.

I just wanted to get this directly to the dealer, so I didn't check the codes before it went.

I also have a Subaru Outback that I need to change the timing belt, clutch and headgaskets on before winter. I was going to pull the motor this morning. I'm glad I didn't because my wife and I would be sharing a Miata on summer tires.

-Justin

Sorry to hear...keep us updated!

[Justin.b]

Just got a call from the service advisor. Apparently the engine is seized up and won't turn over. This wasn't the case yesterday, as I had my wife turn the key and I watched the accessory drive belts turning. I'm not sure how it went from spinning too freely to not spinning at all while sitting.... but I still have no idea exactly what is broken.

Apparently the code thrown by the ECU was simply 'internal engine failure'. At least I wasn't just assuming the worst, I was actually experiencing the worst. I mean, my engine's dead but at least I'm not a pessimist.

-Justin

[MrDinkleman]

Originally Posted by Justin.b

Just got a call from the service advisor. Apparently the engine is seized up and won't turn over. This wasn't the case yesterday, as I had my wife turn the key and I watched the accessory drive belts turning. I'm not sure how it went from spinning too freely to not spinning at all while sitting....

Probably cooled down and all the clearances tightened up to zilch.

[BRZnut]

Originally Posted by Justin.b

Just got a call from the service advisor. Apparently the engine is seized up and won't turn over. This wasn't the case yesterday, as I had my wife turn the key and I watched the accessory drive belts turning. I'm not sure how it went from spinning too freely to not spinning at all while sitting.... but I still have no idea exactly what is broken.

Apparently the code thrown by the ECU was simply 'internal engine failure'. At least I wasn't just assuming the worst, I was actually experiencing the worst. I mean, my engine's dead but at least I'm not a pessimist.

-Justin

hope they do not try to find a reason to blame you as they usually do. Did you get all oil changes at the dealer??

[Justin.b]

I got the first one at the dealer. Sat in the waiting room for almost 4 hours for a stupid oil change with an appointment. Unless that waiting room added complementary hookers, there was no way I was wasting another saturday there.

I did keep records of all my oil changes. All were around 5k miles with one early one closer to 8k miles.

I never expected the original tires to outlast the original engine. I guess I should have switched to a winter engine for half the year like I did with the tires.

-Justin

[BRZnut]

Originally Posted by Justin.b

I got the first one at the dealer. Sat in the waiting room for almost 4 hours for a stupid oil change with an appointment. Unless that waiting room added complementary hookers, there was no way I was wasting another saturday there.

I did keep records of all my oil changes. All were around 5k miles with one early one closer to 8k miles.

I never expected the original tires to outlast the original engine. I guess I should have switched to a winter engine for half the year like I did with the tires.

-Justin

That was my experience too with the oil changes. Have been doing them after the first one was done at the dealer. I have all the recipts too....even took pictures of the oil bottles and bought the filters at the dealer in good faith.


Let us known what happens. Good luck!

[pantdino]

Originally Posted by MrDinkleman

Probably cooled down and all the clearances tightened up to zilch.

My understanding is that the clearances are larger in a cold engine.
Maybe they kept cranking it until it seized

[Spartarus]

Originally Posted by Justin.b

Just got a call from the service advisor. Apparently the engine is seized up and won't turn over. This wasn't the case yesterday, as I had my wife turn the key and I watched the accessory drive belts turning. I'm not sure how it went from spinning too freely to not spinning at all while sitting.... but I still have no idea exactly what is broken.

Apparently the code thrown by the ECU was simply 'internal engine failure'. At least I wasn't just assuming the worst, I was actually experiencing the worst. I mean, my engine's dead but at least I'm not a pessimist.

-Justin

Read all your posts on this page. My bet is a wrist pin tore out of a piston. That's the weak spot if the stock pistons. engine may turn over, until some part of a rod or piston jams against something, then it will be seized. Have they tried turning the engine backwards by hand with a breaker bar on the crank pulley?

The rod usually breaks after a piston failure and windows the block, but if it stayed mostly intact, it likely wouldn't punch a hole in the block.

On a related note, they are a dealer, they could simply be lying.

If that didn't happen, and a rocker ejected (which is very possible) and went out the bottom of the valve cover, it's possible you wouldn't see a hole and there wouldn't be a huge amount of oil leaked out. Seizure could be due to bits of a broken valve jamming against a piston... Assuming the ejecting rocker blew out a valve spring retainer.

Speculation is irrelevant. Just humoring myself. Either way, there's no way your motor doesn't need a total rebuild.

[Justin.b]

I've been out of town for a few days and hadn't heard anything. I sent an email to the service advisor before I got on my plane home and had a response when I landed.

His email just said that they ordered a new short block and heads.

I didn't get the response until after business hours so I couldn't get clarification, but I assume they would have to give me an estimate and get my approval to proceed if this wasn't being covered under warranty.

I think the service advisor may be avoiding me because he thinks I'll be upset that it's going to take a while. He's not realizing that I'll be pretty pleased that this isn't coming out of my pocket (assuming that's the case).

I'll try to confirm the warranty status and see if I can get more information on the failure itself.

-Justin

[Justin.b]

Small update - block and heads are expected to arrive at the dealer on Wednesday, then they will get to assembling and installing.

-Justin

[swarb]

Originally Posted by Justin.b

Small update - block and heads are expected to arrive at the dealer on Wednesday, then they will get to assembling and installing.

-Justin

Who is paying for the work? Because if they charge you shop rates... be prepared to be torn a new one.

[Justin.b]

Originally Posted by swarb

Who is paying for the work? Because if they charge you shop rates... be prepared to be torn a new one.

I was never presented with an estimate / quote and never signed any authorization to perform any specific work. Since they went ahead and ordered the parts without my authorization, I am assuming the work is under warranty.

Also, the service advisor had asked me for service records (which I provided) because he knew Toyota would be asking for them.

I sent an email asking for a loaner car (I usually work from home and we have three cars, so having this one down isn't that big a deal) since I will need to make some visits next week so I need a car that I can answer a phone call in while I'm driving. I only drive the Miata with the top down, so the noise makes that impossible. Also, the temperatures are going to make top-down driving a bit uncomfortable real soon.

I almost feel guilty on the warranty stuff. I'll have this engine replacement which I am assuming would run ~$10k and I had just dropped the car off with them before the regular warranty ran out to address a bunch of issues that all had TSBs (water in tail lights, window seals not sealing properly, cricket noise from high pressure fuel pump - the fix actually made this one worse, and an ignition coil that was throwing a code). That work totaled just around $4k.

-Justin

[Braces]

You're lucky the engine failed when it did. Imagine if it exploded a few days after the warranty expired.

[Justin.b]

My car has been at the dealer for over three weeks now. I got an email last Wednesday that some shims were on backorder and should have arrived on Friday. I haven't done any work on this engine, but from the almost not there clearances around the valve covers, I'm assuming that adjustment / shimming is an engine-out procedure.

So they have to finish putting it together and then can get to putting it back in the car.

I'm glad for the warranty coverage, but missing out on the car for a month is really setting back some other plans. I have some major maintenance due on my Outback (timing belt, throw-out bearing, head gaskets) and can't start because my wife needs to commute in that until the FR-S is back in the rotation. I'm also forced to drive my Miata in the cold, and the Star Specs do not like the cold one single bit.

-Justin