STX Rules and Setup Questions

[Silverspeed]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

On our T2s I wouldn't go stiffer than 10k rear. If you wanted to go that stiff I'd suggest something else.

- Andrew

Like maybe the T3's?

[GeorgeJFrick]

Originally Posted by cjd

I wish conversations like this were more common at events.

I don't talk shop because I would be talking out of my ass. I try to stand off to the side and hope you guys do. More importantly, our events are pretty hectic. I'm also told by an anonymous alignment guy that the top ranks in Milwaukee are generally secretive about their exact setup.

Maybe this year we'll be more social and shake up the ranks too!

[DocWalt]

I've not really chatted too much with the local STX guys besides the friendly "hellos" and what not, but I've spent a lot of time with people over the past couple years that I've been autocrossing chatting about various setup things. People tend to be very friendly and share their setup. You still have to out drive them after all

[Silver Ignition]

So what is everyone doing with the ride height? Anyone have ground-to-pinchweld measurements? I may be too low...

[smg1138]

Originally Posted by Silver Ignition

So what is everyone doing with the ride height? Anyone have ground-to-pinchweld measurements? I may be too low...

Is that how everybody measures? I've been measuring from the ground to the top of the wheel well. Currently at 25.25" front and back, but may lower some more this weekend.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by smg1138

Is that how everybody measures? I've been measuring from the ground to the top of the wheel well. Currently at 25.25" front and back, but may lower some more this weekend.

Don't forget wheel well to axle centerline for taking suspension travel measurements.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by renfield90

That's unfortunate. At my local events we are always talking shop.


Where did I make a *direct* comparison?

Good info. I'll have to take a tape measure out next time I see the car I'm copying but it is low. Works really good on course though. Suspect that they have lowering top hats or other tricks though given what I've read here.

I might have misinterpreted a post somewhere...I've been running low on sleep.

I remember maybe 10 years ago at a local event seeing a slammed EVO on course and it was slow. I said something to my brother next to me that the car would be a lot faster and easier to drive raised up an inch or so. Everyone around looked at me like I was taking crazy pills, but it was true. That car was not using firm springs though...you can go relatively low if you have the full system thought through.

Originally Posted by Silverspeed

Like maybe the T3's?

Well, that's 1 option.

- Andrew

[Blue Gt]

Swaybars: Does anyone run with just a front sway bar to get better rotation?
I have a Strano front bar and stock rear bar with Whiteline end links combined with Tein Street Flex Coliovers. I am not so concerned about how low the car is, I just want balanced and predictable handling. TIA DP

[e1_griego]

I run strano bar, shorter whiteline endlinks and the stock rear bar.

Car handles like I want it to, and I don't see myself changing anything any time soon.

400/400 spring setup with MCS singles.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by GeorgeJFrick

I don't talk shop because I would be talking out of my ass. I try to stand off to the side and hope you guys do. More importantly, our events are pretty hectic. I'm also told by an anonymous alignment guy that the top ranks in Milwaukee are generally secretive about their exact setup.

Maybe this year we'll be more social and shake up the ranks too!

I'm always up for chatting in Milwaukee, but there is overlap on schedules this year and Chicago is getting priority. I think that leaves 6 events.

[DocWalt]

FWIW I'm at 25 3/8" up front and 25 3/4" in the rear, fender to ground.

[sifl]

Hi. I talk with George, Christopher, etc... frequently. I also like to talk tech at events, as well as driving lines. What I find is that I don't seem to make sense to most people, though.
Bart thinks I'm slightly "off", people in my class think I'm kidding, but I'm really not.

I tell everyone what I run (-3 camber front, 8 caster, -1.9 rear, front fenders sit 25.5", rear left is 25 3/8", rear right is 25", corner weighted). I have standard popular parts, RCE T2s, MSI camber plates, Cusco sway bars (20mm front, 16mm rear), ungraded endlinks with bushings, some other bushings and inserts, Nameless exhaust, custom tune, Enkei wheels, popular grippy tires, switching to SPC rear LCAs this year, other common parts and pieces) but I race a lot (rallycross, ice racing, AutoX (on road coarse, parking lots and ovals with 20 degree banks), track days) sit and think about scrub radius, Dave Points, weight transfer, effective wheel radius (tire pressures and final drive decisions), motion ratio (makes me pick different offsets or spacers for my wheels), course elevation changes and pavement/ice/dirt differences.

I'm not sure I understand everything I think about, but I'm getting better. Does any of it even matter compared to the seat time I'm getting and using quality parts - ?

I once talked to Bart at length about sway bars. I came away from that conversation realizing I don't know anything, but that's ok. I had time to learn.

I've spent the last two seasons working on understanding sway bars on three different cars driving in different conditions. I still don't change sway bars per event, but I do change my driving style based on conditions and whether the side-to-side transfer will be slow or fast, and I'll change compression damping, if I can, to help in the transfers.

George was with me, co-driving, at the most recent autocross event we were in at Road America, a few weeks ago. I had new sway bars and endlinks in my 2011 STI for that event, with an otherwise stock car with 68K miles. On and off throttle was unpredictable, steady state turns were hilarious due to wheel hop in the front, but slow and fast transfers were awesome!

I'm putting that experience together with all of the driving and research I've done in the past two years, luckily SportsCar just had a good article called "Turn Right" with more information to ponder, and I will put it into practice again this year.

I'll still try to beat the fast guys at my events, and I'll still not make a lot of sense to people.

-Peter

Edit: I just realized one of the crazier things I became obsessed with at the end of 2014 was actually adding pre-load to sway bars to get a different cross-weight balance. That didn't go anywhere, yet.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by sifl

Hi. I talk with George, Christopher, etc... frequently. I also like to talk tech at events, as well as driving lines. What I find is that I don't seem to make sense to most people, though.
Bart thinks I'm slightly "off", people in my class think I'm kidding, but I'm really not.

I probably wasn't being fair to everyone. I tried some of your lines, and discovered I was still slow... so that's not the problem - yet. My first time through AutoX there was a much bigger group of us (or it felt like it - looking back, it may not have been.) It may just be that the line between competitive and not takes more work.

That's a lot of caster though! whee!

I know I need to make better use of the brakes, and stay on throttle more - trust the car more overall. Got a few small changes to the setup but nothing big yet.

I really need to find energy to stick around for the after-event runs when they happen, get someone else to drive the car and humble me even more.

[sifl]

My caster will likely be reduced this year. Haven't gotten a new alignment, yet, though.

George rightfully pointed out that my offset bushings for my front lower control arms increased the amount of metal that was present in the bushing, so I'm changing those out. To compensate for that, though, I've changed the orientation of my MSI camber/caster plates to increase my caster and decrease my camber.

I may end up with a static 2.6 negative camber, 8 degrees caster (again) and a greater KPA. The caster and KPA will increase turn-in camber, so in hard corners, the 2.6 negative camber will increase on the outside tire, and decrease on the inside tires.

-Peter