Supercharger Comparison: Innovate, Jackson, Kraftwerks, Vortech *Updated March 9 2014

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by xjohnx

Carb vs carb? I'm pretty sure the original post said they were all running custom tunes.

I'm sure I could get them to send me the carb tune for testing if needed, though.

Too much variation otherwise.

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by tendogy

The original intent is indeed custom tunes on dynojets using octane 91/92/93 with any exhaust setup and no artificial cooling (meth etc), and I am very glad that you fine folks will have some of those available soon!

So you are treating them as tuner kits? i.e. seeing whoever can get the highest numbers using whatever kit of their choice?

[tendogy]

Originally Posted by s2d4

So you are treating them as tuner kits? i.e. seeing whoever can get the highest numbers using whatever kit of their choice?

Yes, did you read the original post? haha No hate man, but yeah that is the goal of my research. When/if I get one of these kits I will be getting my car custom tuned and I want to know (1) which kit makes my favorite powerband using the full potential of the kit with a custom tune and (2) is it worth it to drop $1700 on a full exhaust.

So far the answer to #2 is "no, it is not worth it to drop $1700 on a full exhaust for a supercharger."

[swift996]

Originally Posted by tendogy

Maybe? I think I'm going to hang up my analysis hat for a while though.

Do you have the raw data in an excel or .cvs file?

[1086]

I don't think this is meant to be 100% precise - I think it is more trying to give you an estimate/rough comparison to give people a better perspective of what is out there. It helped me that is for sure. And oddly enough I still like the Innovate kits even though they are underpowered compared to the rest. All are great choices but in terms of people who only want 5-8 psi, this gives them some a better idea

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by 1086

I don't think this is meant to be 100% precise - I think it is more trying to give you an estimate/rough comparison to give people a better perspective of what is out there. It helped me that is for sure. And oddly enough I still like the Innovate kits even though they are underpowered compared to the rest. All are great choices but in terms of people who only want 5-8 psi, this gives them some a better idea

That's the goal. Everyone has their own needs and preferences, and this will help reinforce or change your decision.

[Sonolin]

@tendogy thank you very much for your hard work! The graphs are definitely helpful to me and being a data whore I can't get enough of this sort of stuff . Sure its not a direct 1:1 comparison, but that's just the byproduct of using forum data to work with.

Have you seen @moto-mike Innovate dynos? I know they used all dynojet and are a great tuning company, came up with some great #'s for the innovate (albeit non-intercooled + e85... I know he posted *some* 91/92 octane graphs).

[CSG Mike]

Here's my offer.

If we can get the appropriate volunteers, I will arrange for heavily discounted dyno time. Maybe we'll turn it into a meet too.

All cars need to show up on the same day, and will go on the same dyno, with everyone present to verify there's no monkey business.

"off the shelf" cars with 2 cats
- CARB Innovate intercooled
- CARB Innovate non-intercooled
- CARB Jackson Racing
- CARB Vortech V2

"Maxed out" cars (91 octane, any non-catted header, any non-catted front pipe)
- Innovate Intercooled, any pulley
- Jackson Racing, any pulley
- Kraftwerks, any pulley
- Vortech, any pulley

"Maxed out" cars (100+ octane or E85)
- Innovate Intercooled, any pulley
- Jackson Racing, any pulley
- Kraftwerks, any pulley
- Vortech, any pulley


Lets make it happen guys.

[sklimo]

If you were closer I would jump all over it.

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by tendogy

Yes, did you read the original post? haha No hate man, but yeah that is the goal of my research.

Fair enough, E85 and pulley options should also be included then because that would give you the absolute maximum of each of the kits.

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by tendogy

I did not realize that at all. Other kits had header + full catless exhaust, but I have no idea how much a stock pulley would make on a dynojet because there isn't a single available plot of it from a dyno jet on pump gas.

I have lots of plots on dynojets you can use from my own vehicle.

Here is a plot that has stock header and has 2 cats on the standard 75mm pulley. Disregard the blue line as that is with meth injection.

- Innovate Supercharger (Stage 1)
- 91 oct
- Provided Pulley ~8PSI
- K&N Drop-In Filter, Private Label 2.5" Overpipe and catted Front Pipe, custom 2.5" cat back
- 4th gear pulls, ~100 degree ambient temps




Here is one with BOTH stock cats, stock header, but a custom cat back exhaust.

-stage 1 non-intercooled
-91 octane
-75mm pulley
-cat back exhaust
-4th gear pulls ~103 deg heat

[LBC Por Siempre]

Originally Posted by xjohnx

as with anything, I'd take this with a grain of salt as it's comparing everything from cars with stock exhaust/cats to cars with full exhaust/no cats, catbacks, etc. I can only assume based on the variances in modifications on the cars, that there were also different dynos used as well (Even if they're all on dynojets, were they all on the same dynojet? I've seen numbers vary as much as 10hp on the same day between two different dynojets on the same car)

Exactly, these numbers mean a lot, or they can mean little. We are comparing apples to oranges ultimately and the biggest kicker of them all, not all Simply were done on the same Dyno on the same day with the same weather and technicians et al. So in the end this is purely a Non Scientific Excercise.

Though I will admit everyone is probably within 10% of everyone else.

[shaunsweeney]

Originally Posted by brianhj

What do you mean by peaky?

Wrong wording sorry about that. What I meant to say is for a primarily DD car, I generally prefer a power window in the midrange.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by shaunsweeney

Wrong wording sorry about that. What I meant to say is for a primarily DD car, I generally prefer a power window in the midrange.

For the most part, all the kits are similar in the midrange, with the innovate intercooled being a standout.

As I've said many time though, unless you're WOT, and short shifting, ALL the kits make boost, and substantially increase midrange power.

Remember, graphs only reflect WOT power, not 60% throttle power, or 30% throttle power. I'm confident all of these kits are already making more power than WOT stock at 30% throttle boosted; even at idle, all the superchargers are making positive pressure.