Supra (Toyota/BMW) vs. FT86 (Toyota/Subaru)

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by joro2

Of course, not factoring in the cost of jail bail and driving tickets from enjoying that glorious flat-plane crank V8 and the sound it makes. (It is a fantastic sounding engine.)

That's your opinion.

To me it sounds like mullet haircuts and six packs a day of Newport cigarettes. The sound itself is four hundred horrific, shrieking delinquent brats having simultaneous tantrums. And for some reason the Newport Mullets think that sound needs to be shared with everyone at the highest volume possible just before they spin off the road into a tree.

There's nothing special about Roush and Shelby Mustangs. Just higher priced trash for rednecks dodging their child support payments.

Originally Posted by imped4now

But go drive a GT350. It's not your normal Mustang. Make sure to drive any other Mustang, such as a GT, after driving the GT350. And drive the GT350 like you stole it, once it warms up, of course.

At the end of the day it's still a Mustang with the permanent stench of Newports.

[Chikna]

Why are we talking about Mustang? Let's focus on Supra.

[e30kawi]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

That's your opinion.

To me it sounds like mullet haircuts and six packs a day of Newport cigarettes. The sound itself is four hundred horrific, shrieking delinquent brats having simultaneous tantrums. And for some reason the Newport Mullets think that sound needs to be shared with everyone at the highest volume possible just before they spin off the road into a tree.

There's nothing special about Roush and Shelby Mustangs. Just higher priced trash for rednecks dodging their child support payments.



At the end of the day it's still a Mustang with the permanent stench of Newports.

Lol tell us how you really feel about mustangs. They look great but did not want for several reasons.

[86MLR]

I really wanted Toyota to make the 86 when it was first talked about.

I basically got the car I wanted except for the boxer engine, I really wanted it all Toyota with a high reving IL4, that didn't stop me from buying one.

I really wanted Toyota to make the Supra, they didn't BMW did, sadly, from prior experience with BMW, I will never own a Mk5 Supra.

I really hope if Nissan ever makes a S16 it is just Nissan.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by e30kawi

Lol tell us how you really feel about mustangs.

It's like this:

I can't be racist.

I can't be sexist.

I can't be religiously intolerant.

But Mustangs... It's okay to hate Mustangs. I mean, why not hate Mustangs?

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

I really wanted Toyota to make the 86 when it was first talked about.

I basically got the car I wanted except for the boxer engine, I really wanted it all Toyota with a high reving IL4, that didn't stop me from buying one.

I really wanted Toyota to make the Supra, they didn't BMW did, sadly, from prior experience with BMW, I will never own a Mk5 Supra.

I really hope if Nissan ever makes a S16 it is just Nissan.

Well to be fair Toyota wanted a relatively low hood line so they went with the shitty boxer. I can respect that.

Not sure what Toyota was smoking but Tada claimed that it was BMW who approached them first at an auto show. Sounds fishy.

You might get lucky with Nissan now that they managed to get rid of the French dude.

These days if you want a proper Bimmer you buy a Hyundai / Kia not this Supra.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Chikna

$50,000 for Supra, thanks but no thanks. I would get Shelby GT350 for $45,000.

Originally Posted by Chikna

Why are we talking about Mustang? Let's focus on Supra.

Somebody brought them into play.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

I really hope if Nissan ever makes a S16 it is just Nissan.

Chances for an S15 don't look good, but I think MAAYBE we'll see an updated Z on a shared platform with the Mercedes SLC (previously SLK). Also Benz had a delicious new turbo straight six that would do nicely...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.roa...nership-rumor/

Sadly, sports cars under $80k are just not popular enough anymore to fund development by one company. The only ones that sell enough to do so as the Mustang and Camaro, which aren't even sports cars really.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by krayzie

Well to be fair Toyota wanted a relatively low hood line so they went with the shitty boxer. I can respect that.

I don't think that's why they went with the boxer... For one thing, the FT86 hood is miles (well, inches anyway) higher than an S2000 hood which has an upright inline-4 under it.

Pedestrian impact standards may be partially to blame for what I think is a disappointingly *high* hoodline, but so is the strut front suspension, which is kinda forced by the flat engine configuration (limited room for structure for wishbone mounts and structure due to cylinder heads). Although struts probably would have been chosen anyway based on cost and Subaru heritage.

Ideal FR sports car engine that some manufacturer (Mazda?) should try: Low- and aft-mounted V4...

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Sadly, sports cars under $80k are just not popular enough anymore to fund development by one company. The only ones that sell enough to do so as the Mustang and Camaro, which aren't even sports cars really.

Two or three years ago I read a really good article about Mustangs, Camaros and Challengers in one of my trade magazines (yes actual paper). It broke down why they are so popular and made so much sense. The reasons that the American Pony cars continue to be inexpensive and flood the market are pretty obvious when viewed over the big picture.


The numbers are as close as my memory allows but should be at least reasonably accurate. All three makes were within such close margins that they can be lumped into one without skewing things to badly. Keep in mind the data would have been from 2014 0r 15 but it probably hasn't changed much since the same applies back to the late 60s..


Top trim performance models
Approx. 3% of production
Sold at a loss if not dealer marked up
Majority of buyers are 40 to 60 year old males in professional positions


Entry level performance models
Approx. 30% of production
Sold at a margin of 2 to 4% but frequently discounted for deals
Majority of buyers 20 to 30 year old males in entry level professional or technical positions


Base models (with some added packages)
Approx. 67% of production!!!!!
Sold at a margin of 5%+
Majority of buyers 20 to 50 year old females in all types of occupations


So, when people look at these cars, only see the top end performance versions and don't even notice all those base models running around they miss the point of what is actually keeping them on the market. If people stopped buying the base the whole lineup would be gone in a flash since there would no longer be the income to warrant building the performance ones.

The lack of sub $80K sports cars is a direct result of not having a dozen or so versions of the same car to reach across a broad enough range of demographics to bring the numbers up. In the past many sports versions of cars shared a platform with one or more appliance level models and this kept costs down but this has pretty much died out with dedicated platforms for sports and shared for everything else (yes there are exceptions). Al this leads to is that companies need to do joint ventures in order to keep costs reasonable. Even that isn't a new thing though.


The other thing is that even those listed "Pony" cars are all plummeting in sales numbers over the last two years. The general public is just losing interest in them and performance cars in general.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Two or three years ago I read a really good article about Mustangs, Camaros and Challengers in one of my trade magazines (yes actual paper)…..

I would love to read this article, as it makes a lot of sense. In fact, it appears to be the same model used for the Corvette, which easily falls under the $80,000 threshold.

It also plays out in my house. When we bought MomHawk's Mustang she ended up with a V6 convertible because she valued having a convertible top over the extra power of the GT.

When I was shopping for a car in 2012 and bought the 86, everything I cross shopped ended up being twice as expensive as the 86 because of options available. I was perfectly happy with the 86 that was available, but any other car I looked at I always went directly to the top level trim and tried to work back to the minimum I "needed". Even if I work the other direction, I always end up in the high-mid to low-upper trim levels.

I just tried it on the Corvette configuration site. Even though I know if MomHawk showed up at work today and presented me with the lowest trim Corvette I'd be perfectly happy with it, I can't get off the first page of the configurator without switching from the $55K base model to the $71K Z51.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I would love to read this article, as it makes a lot of sense. In fact, it appears to be the same model used for the Corvette, which easily falls under the $80,000 threshold.

It also plays out in my house. When we bought MomHawk's Mustang she ended up with a V6 convertible because she valued having a convertible top over the extra power of the GT.

When I was shopping for a car in 2012 and bought the 86, everything I cross shopped ended up being twice as expensive as the 86 because of options available. I was perfectly happy with the 86 that was available, but any other car I looked at I always went directly to the top level trim and tried to work back to the minimum I "needed". Even if I work the other direction, I always end up in the high-mid to low-upper trim levels.

I just tried it on the Corvette configuration site. Even though I know if MomHawk showed up at work today and presented me with the lowest trim Corvette I'd be perfectly happy with it, I can't get off the first page of the configurator without switching from the $55K base model to the $71K Z51.

Well when I am done reading them I give them to engineering so it may still be in the stack of a hundred or so up in their washroom. Not sure I want to touch it though since engineers can be lonely guys and the trade magazines give them far too much pleasure.

[daiheadjai]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Well when I am done reading them I give them to engineering so it may still be in the stack of a hundred or so up in their washroom. Not sure I want to touch it though since engineers can be lonely guys and the trade magazines give them far too much pleasure.

Can't be too hard on people who take pleasure in their work.

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

It's like this:

I can't be racist.

I can't be sexist.

I can't be religiously intolerant.

But Mustangs... It's okay to hate Mustangs. I mean, why not hate Mustangs?

All car lives matter!