Dead Engine

[LOZZI]

Need some advice/input –

My Stats:

• 5330 miles
• No cel or any other lights throughout ownership
• Only thing I noticed was fuel pump ticking around 5k miles
• Checked oil 2 weeks earlier and looked clean and at a good level
• Never any power issues with the throttle or any odd smells
• The car had never bottomed out or had any leaks where I parked
• Only engine mod is a Greddy Momentum Cone Intake

The Story:

About a month ago (on a Friday) I was driving to work going about 65ish in 4th gear. On the way up to 6k rpm's I was about to shift to 5th and continue on my way—Spirited driving, nothing more...When getting back on the gas in 5th I lost all power from the engine. Battery, Cel, and Oil light all pop on. I was lucky enough to not be near any traffic and coasted to the side of the road.

Once on the side of the road turned everything off and let the car cool for 10-15 mins. Tried to turn it over again with no luck. Called Scion for a tow. During the hour wait for a tow. I checked the oil. First pull, there was oil. It was clean but a little low. Second pull, it was bone dry. No smoke or smells coming from the engine either. After a half hour I tried turning the car back over and see if it needed more time to cool. The engine tried to turn over, but would chug until it stalled. So I didn't force it. Let it sit until the tow.

Requested a flatbed from Scion and they obliged. The guy that came was pretty great. Took extra care on getting it up on the bed. Followed him to the nearest dealer, which was a Toyota/Scion Service center.

The Dealer Experience:

That Friday, they checked the car in for service. Shared all the info from above with a service guy. He knew the car, had a TRD hat on and gave off a good impression considering the circumstances. He said they'd start looking into it. Also gave a cautionary word about the intake and how the bill could fall on me if they find the intake to be the cause—but mentioned that it would be odd if that was the cause. Got me in a loaner Prius and that was end of a long morning.

This a big dealer in NorCal, so I assumed they would start looking into the car within a week—Nope. After about a week I got a call telling me that the intake looks like it's not the cause, but they can't find out anything from their initial inspection. They need the regional rep to come in and tell them how to proceed. Communication was sparse but friendly and I had to keep on them.

Since it looked like I was loosing the car for a bit. I went and cleaned out all my belongings. Keep in mind my car is garaged and kept clean inside and out. When I saw the car it was depressing. Covered in dirt already and smudges around the front and back. Then, inside truck there were all the dirty parts from my underbody and other misc engine pieces just sitting in my truck on my gym bag. It was dirty enough to stain my bag. Not good. Complained, but who knows what will come of it.

The Regional Rep. from Scion came in and told them to use a bore scope and look at the valves, etc.—That came back clean. After that, it was onto the ECU to check codes. Which I guess nothing came of, because they never told me they found anything. Last step was to check the fuel line and make sure I didn't put diesel in it (This is silly since I've never owned a diesel car or used diesel in the 20 years driving. I use the same pump at the same station, 91 oct all my cars). The entire time the slant being that this is still not warrantied and that it probably happened by my hand, not an engine defect. The fuel analysis came back, "inconclusive". A little weird.

Scion Customer Service:

With communication from the dealer being a a light, not getting a picture of what's next, and me wanting to ensure I don't nag and get them on the defensive I called into Scion Customer Service at the end of week one. This didn't really help the situation. There was no real expedition of the process from what I could tell. I think, it was really a place to call and have Scion corporate be aware, but not so much assit. So after my therapy sessions concluded with Customer Service, I got some more calls from the dealer, but the process was still slow. Just more of the..."We'll see what the dealer tells us.", "We'll have our regional rep look into it.", and "Maybe you should talk to the dealers customer service."—Really?

Week 4:

With customer service keeping things cloudy and the dealer having no promising explanation I pushed to get an idea of next steps. They said they'd warranty a new engine, but it sounded like they were doing me a favor. Over the next couple of days they pulled out the engine and ordered a new "short block" which I didn't know what that consisted of.

When pulling out the old engine they found something on the bottom end. The connecting rod bearing on the way to the crank shaft of the #2 cylinder had over spun and became loose causing some serious wear. Which in turn messed with the piston and piston rings. Which would explain the lack of oil since it probably burned a good bit. That said they are willing to disregard the fuel analysis and warranty the repair with this new diagnosis. Chalking this all up to a factory defect.

This week they are installing the new engine (it came pretty quick!) and it's a "long block", which once again I don't know the difference, but also don't know why the change. That's where it's at right now.

Next Steps:


I've been told by the dealer that the car will hopefully be fixed by the end of this coming week. I'm still a little nervous about a whole new engine in a car that I've only owned for 4 months. I have a couple questions...

• How much should I worry about dealer technicians proficiency on installing a new engine? Let alone a new engine of a car that's barely been worked on.
• Will this new engine reduce resale or be a concern when matching the cars numbers up? (I don't want to sell the car, more of a curiosity)
• Should I push for an extended warranty of the engine and other drivetrain parts as I would like to hold onto this car and keep it relatively stock?
• I'm pushing for a full detail of the car as well—Not just a wash and vacum. Is that enough?
• What would anyone else look for that I'm missing?

I'll be all over the car making sure everything checks out. I really do love this car, so fingers are crossed. Hopefully all will be golden—I hope.

Thanks for the input.

[Lonewolf]

1) I would trust the dealer tech to install a completely assembled engine more than rebuild and reinstall an engine. But when it comes down to it, I really don't trust dealer techs much at all...Regardless, make sure that you check all fluid levels and visible hoses/connections before you drive off the lot.

2) I would ask for the engine to be warrantied for a full 5 years/60K from the date of installation just for extra piece of mind. (Get this in writing!)

***I hope that the fuel test coming back inconclusive is a sign of a flawed sample collection or analysis procedure and not something more...

[Darryljr11]

I would ask for a new powertrain warranty to go along with a new engine.

[baldolera]

Originally Posted by LOZZI

[*]I'm pushing for a full detail of the car as well—Not just a wash and vacuum. Is that enough?
Thanks for the input.

Not a good idea, it's probably as bad as the detail all new cars receive, and you will end up with tons of swirl marks in your paint.

[LOZZI]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

1) I would trust the dealer tech to install a completely assembled engine more than rebuild and reinstall an engine. But when it comes down to it, I really don't trust dealer techs much at all...Regardless, make sure that you check all fluid levels and visible hoses/connections before you drive off the lot.

2) I would ask for the engine to be warrantied for a full 5 years/60K from the date of installation just for extra piece of mind. (Get this in writing!)

***I hope that the fuel test coming back inconclusive is a sign of a flawed sample collection or analysis procedure and not something more...

Agreed on the engine bits. Pretty much what I'm thinking. As for the fuel test, I really don't know they've been very vague even though I've pushed for more detail.

[LOZZI]

Originally Posted by baldolera

Not a good idea, it's probably as bad as the detail all new cars receive, and you will end up with tons of swirl marks in your paint.

Point taken.

[jeebus]

you sound like a pretty reasonable, patient person. What a frustrating situation though. Yeesh. I wouldn't trust them installing the long-block, but you have no choice. Just make sure it drives, sounds, and feels as it should. Also, I'd say requesting additional warranty sounds like a good idea.

As for long block vs short block, if I recall correctly, long-block is nearly complete motor with head, etc. Short block requires more parts used from the previous motor.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by jeebus

As for long block vs short block, if I recall correctly, long-block is nearly complete motor with head, etc. Short block requires more parts used from the previous motor.

A short block is the bottom end of the engine. A longblock is a fully assembled engine that includes the heads and valvetrain; possibly ancillaries as well.

[wbradley]

Focus on the fix, not copping a free detailing.

At least you had a decent car to drive as loaner and you get a motor with zero miles.

I wouldn't sweat over matching serial numbers it isn't a Hemi 'Cuda.

[KSC]

That "inconclusive" fuel thing is kinda odd. Since I'm insane, I just so happen to keep all my gas receipts. A story like this, even though it turned out okay, makes me think the OCD in me makes sense, sometimes.

[LOZZI]

Originally Posted by wbradley

Focus on the fix, not copping a free detailing.

Yup, I am focused on the fix. My only other concern is that it's been sitting at the dealer and gone through by a handful of people. I just want to make sure it comes back in the same shape it went in.

At least you had a decent car to drive as loaner and you get a motor with zero miles.

It's all relative...

I wouldn't sweat over matching serial numbers it isn't a Hemi 'Cuda.

Agreed, but it isn't a Pinto either.

[LOZZI]

Originally Posted by KSC

That "inconclusive" fuel thing is kinda odd. Since I'm insane, I just so happen to keep all my gas receipts. A story like this, even though it turned out okay, makes me think the OCD in me makes sense, sometimes.

Yup. I hear you. If it wasn't for my consistency, I would second guess myself on this. I am meticulous when it comes to this stuff with my cars.

[Marrk]

Thanks for your post.

I would focus on getting a warranty for the new engine, possibly the entire powertrain.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by LOZZI

Yup. I hear you. If it wasn't for my consistency, I would second guess myself on this. I am meticulous when it comes to this stuff with my cars.

Whatever happened to this? New engine?