S2000 vs 86 - 3 Years Development Later

[kvnchu]

So its been over a year since I sadly sold my FR-S. Like many of my peers, many of us got fed up with with the issues that we kept running into early on. As development and experience with the car was lacking, many of us early buyers sold our cars.

I really enjoyed my time with the FR-S and thinking back on it, despite all the issues we all had, I really did enjoy having the car quite a bit.

Now its coming time for me to buy car in Taiwan and I'm rather split between buying another s2k here in Taiwan or purchasing another 86.

I am split between these two cars, after these years of development on the 86, and was hoping to get input from you between these cars now. What would you guys do.

I know there are tons of comparisons between the two cars and I've read all of them. The problem is that these comparisons were done when the 86 was relatively new and after owning both cars I do know the differences but I have not done any research on these cars the past two years so I was wondering how these cars stack up now.

I am purchasing this car for the occasional track use. I will be buying the BRZ as the Toyota is not offered in manual in Taiwan.

Cheers and thanks for any input.

[yomny]

In all honesty if you could find a good s2k i'd go for it.. I mean i love my FRS but the F22/F20 is no joke, everything about that car is exceptional. My only concern would be finding one in good conditions or should i say great, i''m that picky. Th aftermarket is vast for both platforms. The FRS will offer that new car smell and more room inside. The s2k being an older car would have noises, the soft top is always a negative for me and i know you could easily get a hardtop but that aint cheap. I sold my track s2k about a year ago and boy do i miss it. I think the s2k is easier to tune, less issues with everything.. even the new 86's have all sorts of weird issues. The s2k's suspension from factory is completely adjustable... but if i had to choose between a new 86 and a not so greatly kept i'd probably go for the FRS. I just like new lol.

Just to make things more interesting.

[EAGLE5]

For pure track day driving, the S2000 is superior. For daily driving, the BRZ is superior. It's not like you're going to make a bad choice.

[kvnchu]

Originally Posted by yomny

I think the s2k is easier to tune, less issues with everything.. even the new 86's have all sorts of weird issues.

yomny, thats kind of the information that Im looking for. Are they the issues the first plagued the 86 cars or are they new?

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

For pure track day driving, the S2000 is superior. For daily driving, the BRZ is superior. It's not like you're going to make a bad choice.

As there been any major developments the past few months that may have made the 86 a better track car than it was when it first came out or has it been roughly the same?

[yomny]

Originally Posted by kvnchu

yomny, thats kind of the information that Im looking for. Are they the issues the first plagued the 86 cars or are they new?
?

I'm still seeing issue with the new ones.. Just recenlty read about some guy with less than 3k having the "disappearing coolant" issue. I had it myself and my car has 10k. Haven't had anything else fortunately but i've been reading around bout some scary stuff, then again people only come around to post scary stuff or when they have an issue Some fairly new ones have been reporting the CEL, traction light issues, and another guy with a relatively new one having his RPM hunting on a completely stock car, he said the dealer replaced, maf, throttle body..just couldn't reflash the ecu because the car was new Not trying to scare you but these are the sort of things that keep me awake at night about this car lol.

As for updates on the new cars for track application i think they revised the dampers or spring rates on the FRS but not sure about the BRZ then again when you go tracking that's one of the things we replace lol.

[xxscaxx]

I've been lucky to not have any issues (knock on wood) with my BRZ besides some taillight condensation which I fixed myself.

I almost bought an S2K before the BRZ (had a deposit down on it, went to go pick it up and the dealer tried pulling some shenanigans so I backed out). Wonder what life would be like if I had that car right now lol.

The S2K is tried and true, its an amazing car with an exceptional engine. I still love my BRZ but I don't think you can go wrong on either one, especially for track use. I have no first-hand experience with the track though so not sure how valid my opinion is lol.

I have a friend who has an 06 S2k with 12,000 original miles on it. Garage kept, White with all black interior. Would give my left nut for that car.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by kvnchu

As there been any major developments the past few months that may have made the 86 a better track car than it was when it first came out or has it been roughly the same?

Some well sorted fi kits. Some oiling and cooling options. Tuning has settled down to a few good choices. I really don't know what issues you had. My two track issues were heat management and sloshing fuel on e85.

[Churg]

Honestly, the issues with the twins are hit or miss. I had a funky one-off issue with my BRZ, but when I go out to meets, talk to people at AutoX, and speak to a few of my 86-owning friends, they've all never had issues, or the one's they have had were because of their own faults.

If it's an occasional toy at the track, the S2000 would be better, definitely. You can actually get camber out of it stock, and is more competitive immediately without mods. But the BRZ does have the extra room, easier to find new, and since it's an ongoing platform, new stuff is coming out all the time for this car. Granted, I haven't kept up with the S2000 community, but I'm sure parts aren't coming out like hotcakes still, since the car is no longer in production.

Another thing to keep in mind too, is yes, you hear a lot of issues with the twins, but honestly, these forums are such a small, small portion of the owner-base. Of course you'll see a ton of issues on here, because it's either enthusiasts that own the car and play with it, or new owners that have had an issue with the car, found our community on Google, and posted their problem hoping to find answers. It's not like this forum is even 50% of the community, I'd argue that there is less than that.

TL;DR - Either way you'll have a fun car that is good on the track, just depends on how much you want to spend on it to make it even more fun. Used car vs new car.

[DarkSunrise]

I think the main update since you owned an FR-S/BRZ is that the DI seal issue has largely been put to rest. Changes to the transient ignition retard tables in ECU tuning appear to have solved the issue, along with broader awareness of the sensitivity of these engines to detonation. Probably the largest issue for NA track guys is heat management, both as it pertains to oil temps and coilpacks, but I wouldn't consider either a major or un-resolvable issue.

Other than that, not much has changed. I would say the S2000 still has the more track-reliable (and proven) engine. The BRZ/FR-S is more DD-friendly. I don't think you can really go wrong with either.

[B L U E S L A T E]

I gotta be honest. I love my BRZ, but I loved my S2000 even more. BRZ is easier to drive fast, but I feel like I was more engaged when I drove my S2000.

[CSG David]

Kevin...if you need a S2k in Taiwan, I think you'll need to import one right? I also have a few friends out there with 86s and are probably the fastest 86 drivers in Taiwan right now. There might be a possibility we'll be going out there in the future to help do some testing and promote track driving further in that community as well.

[CSG Mike]

I guess the question is, what is your end goal with the car? That should determine which car you get.

While virtually all of the early adopters that were forging a new path have left the platform, we've kept developing.

[AyJay]

I've owned an s2k for 7 years and a FR-S for almost 2. I've put both in NorCal TA competitions in various forms of modification.

If my wife suddenly told me I could only have one then I'd get rid of ... my wife (j/k... sorta )
Serously, I would still choose to keep the s2000.

This probably goes w/o saying, but the fastest s2000s around here are still several seconds ahead of the fastest 86s I've seen.

[kvnchu]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

Some well sorted fi kits. Some oiling and cooling options. Tuning has settled down to a few good choices. I really don't know what issues you had.

I could probably do a search but could you give me a couple companies to do some research?

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I think the main update since you owned an FR-S/BRZ is that the DI seal issue has largely been put to rest. Changes to the transient ignition retard tables in ECU tuning appear to have solved the issue, along with broader awareness of the sensitivity of these engines to detonation. Probably the largest issue for NA track guys is heat management, both as it pertains to oil temps and coilpacks, but I wouldn't consider either a major or un-resolvable issue.

I've had both DI and Coilpack issues. I'll look into tuning but what is the coilpack fix?

Is oil cooling a big issue? I know s2k's have oil cooling issues but not many ppl seems to run coolers either way.

Originally Posted by AyJay

This probably goes w/o saying, but the fastest s2000s around here are still several seconds ahead of the fastest 86s I've seen.

Even with similar modification, that gap hasnt closed? I know that has always been the issue but I was hoping that there would be faster guys that join the platform and help set new records..

Originally Posted by CSG David

Kevin...if you need a S2k in Taiwan, I think you'll need to import one right? I also have a few friends out there with 86s and are probably the fastest 86 drivers in Taiwan right now. There might be a possibility we'll be going out there in the future to help do some testing and promote track driving further in that community as well.

That would very welcome! What are you guys planning?

Yes those are issues as well that I have debated for a while. I didnt want to go into it too much as this is the track subform but...

There is a used car market in the s2k but there regulations and testing that would be a pain. The main issue is that oem parts are not readily available as the s2k was never sold here.

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I guess the question is, what is your end goal with the car? That should determine which car you get.

While virtually all of the early adopters that were forging a new path have left the platform, we've kept developing.

I cant pinpoint what the car will be for as it keeps changing. I spend half my time in Asia so it would be nice to have a fun car that i would take down to the track every so often.



CSG, do you guys know what the fastest time a 86 has done on BW 13cw with:
Coilovers
Wheels / Street Tires
Exhaust / Tune
Small supporting mods like roll centers / bushings /ect