RACESENG X PENSKE | The Ultimate Racing Shocks - Page 9 - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

Hoosier Daddy · 06-24-2015, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RBbugBITme

Probably because they wanted to make sure everything from an inerter was contained inside the damper body.

I suppose. It's not really a 'damper' anymore if it only part of it is now a damper?!

Would you be able to generalize the range of effective mass, or coefficients, these inerters utilize in IndyCar racing? I understand in F1 the effective mass can be as high as 500 kg.

solidONE · 06-25-2015, 01:42 AM

Shock absorber dream team!

ajc209 · 06-25-2015, 04:53 AM

I have a feeling these shocks are gong to be:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyx6JDQCslE"]LMFAO - Sexy and I Know It - YouTube[/ame]

AZP Installs · 06-25-2015, 07:40 AM

I hope folks embrace these dampers in the BRZ/FRS community.

Wish the cost would make them viable for our Spec86 Cup spec series but I fear they won't be viable for the target spec package price.

-mike

WHITE · 06-25-2015, 09:27 AM

Subbed. Have to say I'm really excited about this. You will have at least one buyer right here.

cookiesowns · 07-04-2015, 12:56 AM

So when is this coming out?

cdrazic93 · 07-04-2015, 02:15 AM

silly question, havent searched it yet; whats an inerter?

Hoosier Daddy · 07-04-2015, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdrazic93

silly question, havent searched it yet; whats an inerter?

Springs are displacement depended, dampers are velocity depended and inerters are acceleration depended. Inerters add effective mass to a body by adding an extra component of inertia, for very little added weight, which in turn dynamically reacts to suspension forces. Either a dense fluid or a mechanical metal flywheel is displaced or spun which has some amount of inertia based on its configuration. Their purpose is to cancel out or reduce disturbances which when tuned correctly allow tire patch contact to stay loaded to the road surface better and improve grip. That's how it does it. Now how that's supposed to feels to a driver? I have no idea.

I use the term tuned because a mass chosen will have a reaction exactly proportional 180 degrees out of phase with only one discreet input force completely cancelling out the dynamic force variation of that particular force. Any other input force will have different results with that same inertial mass. It will need to be tuned to best reduce the tire force variations throughout the different corners of a circuit.

Simplistically the math looks like this for spring, damper and inerter elements:

Spring Force = k(d1 - d0)
Force (N)
k - spring rate (N/m)
d1 - displacement on one side (m)
d0 - displacement on the other side (m)

Damping Force = c(v1 - v0)
Force (N)
c - damping coefficient (N*s/m)
v1 - velocity on one side (m/s)
v0 - velocity on the other side (m/s)
v = dd/dt

Inertance Force = b(a1 - a0)
Force (N)
b - inertance (N*s^2/m or kg)
a1 - acceleration on one side (m/s^2)
a0 - acceleration on the other side (m/s^2)
a = dv/dt

On corner inerters or typical 3rd inerters d0, v0, a0 can be assumed to be zero as only one end moves, the end connected to the upright, control arm, pushrod or pullrod. On 'heave' springs (3rd springs that connect to each other and not the chassis) d0, v0 and a0 could be non-zero.

I might have worked with these things before... Admittedly not Penske versions nor in IndyCar. Lol

cdrazic93 · 07-04-2015, 06:32 PM

I always thought spring force was (1/2)kx^2, formalities. I kind of get it.

donoman · 07-04-2015, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdrazic93

I always thought spring force was (1/2)kx^2, formalities. I kind of get it.

That's spring energy.

RBbugBITme · 07-04-2015, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdrazic93

silly question, havent searched it yet; whats an inerter?

Hoosier daddy got fairly detailed and there really isn't anything wrong with what he said.

cdrazic93 · 07-04-2015, 10:03 PM

I looked up some pictures and apparently these J dampers i have run across before

i think i would understand it better in a visual demonstration. Although it sounds to me like it takes the rotational mass of the car and absorbs it.

RBbugBITme · 07-04-2015, 10:27 PM

I was going to say you'd have better luck googling "penske inerter" because j-damper was a secret code name but apparently there still isn't that much info on the net about them.

I haven't seen anything that looks like the stuff we're actually doing right now.

cdrazic93 · 07-04-2015, 10:32 PM

The only penske inerter i was able to find was a drag shock

07-04-2015, 02:15 AM	#119
cdrazic93 Junior Join Date: Aug 2013 Drives: a car Location: Probably at school Posts: 4,341 Thanks: 3,184 Thanked 2,512 Times in 1,502 Posts Mentioned: 20 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	silly question, havent searched it yet; whats an inerter? __________________ "Ah! What music! They could have never imagined, those pioneers who invented the automobile, that it would posses us like this, our imaginations, our dreams. Men love women, but even more than that, men love CARS!"-Lord Hesketh

07-04-2015, 06:32 PM	#121
cdrazic93 Junior Join Date: Aug 2013 Drives: a car Location: Probably at school Posts: 4,341 Thanks: 3,184 Thanked 2,512 Times in 1,502 Posts Mentioned: 20 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I always thought spring force was (1/2)kx^2, formalities. I kind of get it. __________________ "Ah! What music! They could have never imagined, those pioneers who invented the automobile, that it would posses us like this, our imaginations, our dreams. Men love women, but even more than that, men love CARS!"-Lord Hesketh

07-04-2015, 10:03 PM	#124
cdrazic93 Junior Join Date: Aug 2013 Drives: a car Location: Probably at school Posts: 4,341 Thanks: 3,184 Thanked 2,512 Times in 1,502 Posts Mentioned: 20 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I looked up some pictures and apparently these J dampers i have run across before i think i would understand it better in a visual demonstration. Although it sounds to me like it takes the rotational mass of the car and absorbs it. __________________ "Ah! What music! They could have never imagined, those pioneers who invented the automobile, that it would posses us like this, our imaginations, our dreams. Men love women, but even more than that, men love CARS!"-Lord Hesketh

07-04-2015, 10:27 PM	#125
RBbugBITme Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Drives: S60R/Corvette Location: Reading, PA Posts: 104 Thanks: 4 Thanked 236 Times in 59 Posts Mentioned: 7 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I was going to say you'd have better luck googling "penske inerter" because j-damper was a secret code name but apparently there still isn't that much info on the net about them. I haven't seen anything that looks like the stuff we're actually doing right now. __________________ Ryan M. Strange Engineering Director of Suspension Development

07-04-2015, 10:32 PM	#126
cdrazic93 Junior Join Date: Aug 2013 Drives: a car Location: Probably at school Posts: 4,341 Thanks: 3,184 Thanked 2,512 Times in 1,502 Posts Mentioned: 20 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	The only penske inerter i was able to find was a drag shock __________________ "Ah! What music! They could have never imagined, those pioneers who invented the automobile, that it would posses us like this, our imaginations, our dreams. Men love women, but even more than that, men love CARS!"-Lord Hesketh

06-25-2015, 01:42 AM	#114
solidONE Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Drives: FR-S Whiteout Location: California Posts: 2,863 Thanks: 1,808 Thanked 790 Times in 611 Posts Mentioned: 42 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Shock absorber dream team!

06-25-2015, 04:53 AM	#115
ajc209 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Drives: GT86 Cosworth Location: UK Posts: 753 Thanks: 361 Thanked 270 Times in 188 Posts Mentioned: 9 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	I have a feeling these shocks are gong to be: [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyx6JDQCslE"]LMFAO - Sexy and I Know It - YouTube[/ame]

06-25-2015, 07:40 AM	#116
AZP Installs Join Date: Oct 2011 Drives: '11 STi->'14 BRZ \| '14 Touareg TDi Location: Kenilworth, NJ Posts: 1,269 Thanks: 359 Thanked 557 Times in 371 Posts Mentioned: 49 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I hope folks embrace these dampers in the BRZ/FRS community. Wish the cost would make them viable for our Spec86 Cup spec series but I fear they won't be viable for the target spec package price. -mike

06-25-2015, 09:27 AM	#117
WHITE Thats pretty neat Join Date: Jun 2013 Drives: LOADING...... Location: Wilkes-barre, pa Posts: 201 Thanks: 114 Thanked 95 Times in 67 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Subbed. Have to say I'm really excited about this. You will have at least one buyer right here.

07-04-2015, 12:56 AM	#118
cookiesowns Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Drives: WRB BRZ Series.Blue Location: USA Posts: 85 Thanks: 7 Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	So when is this coming out?

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