2016 Mazda MX 5 Turbo?

[B3yondL]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

That said, if Mazda can produce a Miata at ~2200 lbs. with 180-200 hp AND it comes as a coupe, I could definitely see myself buying one.

God with those stats hell I'd buy 2 just to show support.

[MeehowsBRZ]

Some days (aka most summer days) I miss my NC and would gladly buy another one... and then I realize I live in IL and its snowing 6 months a year and I rather have a BRZ in the snow then a Miata. But if the ND is as awesome as its starting to sound I might have to pick one up some day as a weekend toy.

[synchromesh]

Years ago, would have had a proposal for a "biodiesel" engine in a car for kicks. The smell of french fry oil, burning clutch and rubber in the air? Yes! Chicken grease and fried clutch wafting? No.


With the price of used restaurant grease up 4 fold in the last ten years, while your living, the dreams you have as a young adult slowly fade away.


Back on regular diesel, VW's concept roadster sure has been around for a while. Since around the time they had to clean up that billionaire shareholder dude from the train track.

[synchromesh]

Pretty neat idea.

[serialk11r]

I can't see 200hp, I say marketing will be okay with 170-180. Which is funny because of that turbo sound.

I usually prefer smaller displacement but if they are giving it too much low end torque with a turbo like the norm these days, I'd rather figure out how to throw in a 2.0L Skyactiv engine. I'm fairly sure those engines can hit 180hp with very small modifications.

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by synchromesh

Pretty neat idea.

The original idea.

[Atropine]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

@Rampage Totally agree on your engine speculations, I would love to see a diesel sports car, I'd be more inclined to believe it's possible if the current SkyActiv-D was already available here, maybe they're tuning it for the Miata which is why it hasn't hit here yet, idk as much as I'd like it, seems far fetched. If my car got wrecked and this thing is a diesel it would certainly make the short list.

http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...-diesel-delay/

~50 mpg freeway out of a sports car that also happens to have 310 ft-lbs of torque, 173 hp, that's a compelling case if it nails the fun factor.


As for the coupe, I already know the rotary engine pratfalls, I specifically mentioned them. Sure, I'll bite that the coupe can sell as many as the 'vert, but where will those sales come from? Certainly not out of Mustang or Camaros, probably not out of 370Z's or Gen coupes, sure it'll take the people who think the Toyobaru is bloated and don't need the seats or trunk space but who else? Is it going to coax out people who wouldn't otherwise buy a new sports car still driving their older RX-7s, 8's, 240sx's? Doubtful as the Toyobaru has been out for two years now if they wanted a new coupe they'd be driving it. I'd guess it would take a bite out of the 'vert sales, a bunch of extra R&D and tooling cost for a marginal increase in sales imo, it's not all of a sudden going to change the market, it doesn't offer anything the 'vert wouldn't except a roof and maybe an extra 3-4 cubic feet of trunk space (yes structural rigidity weight savings blah blah blah, that doesn't drive sales).

I just really don't see the point of a fixed roof Miata, I'd rather Mazda put the money into an RX-7 successor (the first generation, which sold insanely well) and a true Toyobaru fighter, whether it's got a rotary or not. (Please be a rotary)

To everyone else: seriously guys, you're all dreaming, go back and look at the initial speculation for the Toyobaru, they were all quoting <2,600 lbs and >200 horses, and as much as 250. That's next to impossible at the <$30k price point while meeting regulations.
~2400 lbs
~175 horses
~$25k
~RWD
I'll eat my hat if it's anything too far off of this.

About your numbers...

I agree with them all except price.

I think there will be a Stripped down Soft Top that will be around 23k and of course a Power Hard-top GT model that will be an over-priced 33k (and will be sold for 29-30k on lots once the original push is over).

Also, about that diesel idea...on the Miata forums some people have been BEGGING for that engine.

Evidently that Sky-Active Diesel is very responsive, but not super rev-happy...but with all that torque, I think that could be forgiven.

[krayzie]

I think Mazda is hesitant to do a coupe Miata because that isn't part of the original LWS formula. It is always FR open top lightweight sports car inspired by the old British products. Didn't they say they want the ND to be more NA this time around?

20 years ago the Mazda coupe line-up had MX-3, MX-6, RX-7, Cosmo, (does Lantis count as a 4 door coupe?) there was really no need for a coupe Miata.

[swpbrz]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

@Rampage Totally agree on your engine speculations, I would love to see a diesel sports car, I'd be more inclined to believe it's possible if the current SkyActiv-D was already available here, maybe they're tuning it for the Miata which is why it hasn't hit here yet, idk as much as I'd like it, seems far fetched. If my car got wrecked and this thing is a diesel it would certainly make the short list.

http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...-diesel-delay/

~50 mpg freeway out of a sports car that also happens to have 310 ft-lbs of torque, 173 hp, that's a compelling case if it nails the fun factor.


As for the coupe, I already know the rotary engine pratfalls, I specifically mentioned them. Sure, I'll bite that the coupe can sell as many as the 'vert, but where will those sales come from? Certainly not out of Mustang or Camaros, probably not out of 370Z's or Gen coupes, sure it'll take the people who think the Toyobaru is bloated and don't need the seats or trunk space but who else? Is it going to coax out people who wouldn't otherwise buy a new sports car still driving their older RX-7s, 8's, 240sx's? Doubtful as the Toyobaru has been out for two years now if they wanted a new coupe they'd be driving it. I'd guess it would take a bite out of the 'vert sales, a bunch of extra R&D and tooling cost for a marginal increase in sales imo, it's not all of a sudden going to change the market, it doesn't offer anything the 'vert wouldn't except a roof and maybe an extra 3-4 cubic feet of trunk space (yes structural rigidity weight savings blah blah blah, that doesn't drive sales).

I just really don't see the point of a fixed roof Miata, I'd rather Mazda put the money into an RX-7 successor (the first generation, which sold insanely well) and a true Toyobaru fighter, whether it's got a rotary or not. (Please be a rotary)

To everyone else: seriously guys, you're all dreaming, go back and look at the initial speculation for the Toyobaru, they were all quoting <2,600 lbs and >200 horses, and as much as 250. That's next to impossible at the <$30k price point while meeting regulations.
~2400 lbs
~175 horses
~$25k
~RWD
I'll eat my hat if it's anything too far off of this.

I don't think there going to keep making cars like that much longer. Tesla changed a lot of the mindset in these companies. You can't just hit status quo and make sure everything in market stays undisturbed... and be groundbreaking and revolutionary at the same time. I hope they make the best fucking go kart money can buy. Hopefully their done with that older model of thinking you describe . From what I've read it is not unknown in the industry and eyeballs are all over Tesla business model of just make the best thing you can. Period. Be the best. Not hold up innovation so you can sell shit.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by swpbrz

I don't think there going to keep making cars like that much longer. Tesla changed a lot of the mindset in these companies. You can't just hit status quo and make sure everything in market stays undisturbed... and be groundbreaking and revolutionary at the same time. I hope they make the best fucking go kart money can buy. Hopefully their done with that older model of thinking you describe . From what I've read it is not unknown in the industry and eyeballs are all over Tesla business model of just make the best thing you can. Period. Be the best. Not hold up innovation so you can sell shit.

What part of my post is the 'status quo' that offends you?
The performance targets at the bottom?
The engine choice?
The not having a coupe version?

The only one I'll defend is the performance targets since that seems to be the primary focus of the thread with people thinking the next Miata is going to have 11lbs/hp. You mention Tesla, from a performance standpoint Tesla did nothing revolutionary, the top of the line Model S competes directly with the M5 at the same price point with nearly identical 0-60 times.

Everybody praised Ford for bringing the new Mustang to us, how much better is it than the outgoing one? So far answers seem to be 'about the same', it gained weight, engine options are only marginally better, yes they developed the suspension and chassis a lot but on paper it is far from a revolution.

I hope they make the best fucking go-kart money can buy too, but it'd be absurd to think they'll deliver a 2,200 lb 200 hp roadster in this day and age without significantly moving the car upmarket (which is Afla's job I gathered). I think the best shot they have at shaking everything up is delivering us the 2.2L diesel, ridiculous mileage and torquey fun could seriously change the game and if that's what happens, my performance guesses will remain the same.

Edit: @Atropine the video doesn't really sound like a diesel and honestly is not conclusive proof of a turbo (although >90% is probably a safe estimate) the engine sounds very much old Italian, lots of intake noise... But I think your pricing is spot on, I just said $25k to ground it in reality that this thing is unlikely to fight a Mustang at the drag strip like some are proposing.

[reni]

Originally Posted by krayzie

Yes, Mazda made a limited edition coupe version of the NB for Japan only. IIRC, it was 2000 units and they all sold out immediately.

Also, I can't believe anyone thinking it wouldn't sell (as if the NB experiment wasn't proof enough). It's kind of like saying that the Cayman won't sell because anyone who wanted a German coupe already bought a Z3 coupe.
Hell, even on Miata.net, where the groupthink dictates that everyone HAS to love top-down cars, many in the ND forum are demanding a fixed roof as well....

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

I can't see 200hp, I say marketing will be okay with 170-180. Which is funny because of that turbo sound.

I usually prefer smaller displacement but if they are giving it too much low end torque with a turbo like the norm these days, I'd rather figure out how to throw in a 2.0L Skyactiv engine. I'm fairly sure those engines can hit 180hp with very small modifications.

Well, the skyactiv G 2.0 makes around 163 hp, and the skyactiv G 2.5 makes 184 hp, I wouldn't hold it past them to simply turbo one of them or simply take an Alfa/fiat motor like the 1.6l in the Abarth and drop it in with some heavy modification for power. I see hp as simply a number in rwd cars as long as they are fun to drive and communicative to me when near their limit

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by BRZZZZZZZZZZ

Plenty of 1.5L engines out there now that make more than that, that's only 120HP/L which is pretty low by todays standards and tech.

Its also projected to weight 500-600lbs less than the twins currently weigh...

I never once said you couldn't get that kind of power from a 1.5 liter engine. I just said that won't happen, i.e. Mazda won't sell it that way.

Mazda very publicly years ago said that their target weight for the next Miata was 1000 kg and that they wanted to increase fuel efficiency. That weight figure wasn't some fluff a fanboi made up. I don't think they'll meet that goal but whatever.

A Miata coupe would make a lot of sense. They already have the platform so there wouldn't be a lot of R&D cost associated with it. In the past there never was a Miata coupe because, as already stated, Mazda had another coupe, RX7, RX8, etc. (And no the Miata didn't share it's platform with any other cars).

A Miata coupe sold today would closely resemble the FC RX7, which sold VERY well.

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by synchromesh

Pretty neat idea.

Eclipse?