follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Speed By Design
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing

Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing Relating to suspension, chassis, and brakes. Sponsored by 949 Racing.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-19-2017, 12:58 AM   #3319
RJasonKlein
Senior Member
 
RJasonKlein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Drives: 2013 Scion FR-S 10 Series
Location: Clarendon Hills, IL
Posts: 617
Thanks: 441
Thanked 356 Times in 202 Posts
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by babykwiss View Post
What would cause the driver side front tire to wear out A LOT faster on the outside compared to all the other 3 on the track. Recently went to Shannonville (Canada, Ontario) and the track has a lot of right turns. My current alignemt is Front -3.3 / Rear -2.5. Running 245/40/17 RE71R on 17x9. Trying to correct my setup before I buy a new set of tires.
Out of curiously, what dampers are fitted, what are your spring rates front and rear, and are you running stock or stiffer aftermarket anti-roll bars? What are your toe and caster settings?

You're running a tire with a lot of mechanical grip and even though you have a lot of negative camber, running too soft a spring rate without stiffer anti-roll bars will allow the car to roll sufficiently to compromise the geometry and destroy the tire. You may also be running too soft a rear spring rate relative to the front spring rate, causing the car to have excessive understeer and destroy the front tire. What's the overall balance of the car like? Lastly, the RE-71R is better suited for autocross than DE or extended circuit work, so maybe you're just overdriving the tire.

Last edited by RJasonKlein; 07-19-2017 at 02:05 AM. Reason: Corrected a typographical error.
RJasonKlein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2017, 10:05 AM   #3320
Icecreamtruk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Drives: Track preped NA FRS
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 987
Thanks: 1,056
Thanked 680 Times in 405 Posts
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by babykwiss View Post
What would cause the driver side front tire to wear out A LOT faster on the outside compared to all the other 3 on the track. Recently went to Shannonville (Canada, Ontario) and the track has a lot of right turns. My current alignemt is Front -3.3 / Rear -2.5. Running 245/40/17 RE71R on 17x9. Trying to correct my setup before I buy a new set of tires.
Hi babykwiss, shannonville is a wonderfull track! I went there this past saturday with track and time, had a blast, and won my class easily, very good track for our cars.

I ran the pro and the long track configurations, the pro track is almost exclusively composed of right turns and a lot of them are high speed. So my question to you is, what suspension setup do you have (spring rates + dampers + ride heigh + sway bars)?

As a reference, I had a bit more wear outside than inside in both rear and front and im running 6k/8k spring rates, on very stiff damper settings and stock sway bars. My camber is -3.8 front, -3.2 rear, -0.1 toe-out front, 0 toe rear. Running RS4 tires, which should have similar grip to yours (maybe a bit less when yours are not overheated).
Icecreamtruk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2017, 10:26 AM   #3321
babykwiss
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Drives: Scion FRS
Location: Toronto
Posts: 102
Thanks: 3
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJasonKlein View Post
Out of curiously, what dampers are fitted, what are your spring rates front and rear, and are you running stock or stiffer aftermarket anti-roll bars? What are your toe and caster settings?

You're running a tire with a lot of mechanical grip and even though you have a lot of negative camber, running too soft a spring rate without stiffer anti-roll bars will allow the car to roll sufficiently to compromise the geometry and destroy the tire. You may also be running too soft a rear spring rate relative to the front spring rate, causing the car to have excessive understeer and destroy the front tire. What's the overall balance of the car like? Lastly, the RE-71R is better suited for autocross than DE or extended circuit work, so maybe you're just overdriving the tire.


Thanks for the reply.


Im running Tein Street flex 7k/7k. I am actually running Eibach sway bars all around. Both on full stiff settings. The car DOES tend to understeer more than oversteer on throttle. Could it also be my driving? I feel like O go in to hot into a corner, resulting in the tire scrubbing of speed. Im probably wrong
babykwiss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2017, 10:43 AM   #3322
babykwiss
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Drives: Scion FRS
Location: Toronto
Posts: 102
Thanks: 3
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icecreamtruk View Post
Hi babykwiss, shannonville is a wonderfull track! I went there this past saturday with track and time, had a blast, and won my class easily, very good track for our cars.

I ran the pro and the long track configurations, the pro track is almost exclusively composed of right turns and a lot of them are high speed. So my question to you is, what suspension setup do you have (spring rates + dampers + ride heigh + sway bars)?

As a reference, I had a bit more wear outside than inside in both rear and front and im running 6k/8k spring rates, on very stiff damper settings and stock sway bars. My camber is -3.8 front, -3.2 rear, -0.1 toe-out front, 0 toe rear. Running RS4 tires, which should have similar grip to yours (maybe a bit less when yours are not overheated).

Awsome! I was actually there this Saturday too running the long track. I guess you guys were the group before us! I listed the specs above about my car. passenger side tires had even wear. My driver side tires especially the front had A LOT of wear on the outside. I had about 30-40% tread life left coming into the track day. My driver side especially, the outter is basically completely worn with no tread left.
babykwiss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2017, 10:57 AM   #3323
Teseo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Drives: frs
Location: Gunsai
Posts: 4,874
Thanks: 7,129
Thanked 2,919 Times in 1,767 Posts
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Guys enlight me, i want to lower my car and im considering yellow springs on my stock shocks but the shocks have 63k miles on it, i commute 44 miles a day 35 are highway the rest is backroads. My concern is, can i install springs and lets say the shocks will last until 100k miles on new yellows or is prudent to buy coilovers instead? I want to keep on budget and coilovers are overkill for me but i seen some coilovers of Tein (street basis z) that fit my budget.
Teseo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2017, 11:19 AM   #3324
Icecreamtruk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Drives: Track preped NA FRS
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 987
Thanks: 1,056
Thanked 680 Times in 405 Posts
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by babykwiss View Post
Awsome! I was actually there this Saturday too running the long track. I guess you guys were the group before us! I listed the specs above about my car. passenger side tires had even wear. My driver side tires especially the front had A LOT of wear on the outside. I had about 30-40% tread life left coming into the track day. My driver side especially, the outter is basically completely worn with no tread left.
Well, that tire is going to suffer on the long track for sure. What you probably have tho, is a chronic understeer problem, where your car is always understeering thru all phases of the corner, so the front outside tire is always scrubbing and on the shoulder. Try to soften your setup in the front (swaybars and dampers) and increase it in the back (keep things as tight as possible). You should also be faster if you can rotate the car with the throttle instead of throwing it into a turn and understeer all the way thru.

Last thing, dont expect RE71R to have any kind of decent thread life. I've seen people go thru a brand new set in 1 single lap day. Usually the more demanded tire ends up bald at the end of the day. Those are autox tires, or 1 lap wonders, they dont really take prolonged heat well.
Icecreamtruk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2017, 12:34 PM   #3325
babykwiss
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Drives: Scion FRS
Location: Toronto
Posts: 102
Thanks: 3
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icecreamtruk View Post
Well, that tire is going to suffer on the long track for sure. What you probably have tho, is a chronic understeer problem, where your car is always understeering thru all phases of the corner, so the front outside tire is always scrubbing and on the shoulder. Try to soften your setup in the front (swaybars and dampers) and increase it in the back (keep things as tight as possible). You should also be faster if you can rotate the car with the throttle instead of throwing it into a turn and understeer all the way thru.

Last thing, dont expect RE71R to have any kind of decent thread life. I've seen people go thru a brand new set in 1 single lap day. Usually the more demanded tire ends up bald at the end of the day. Those are autox tires, or 1 lap wonders, they dont really take prolonged heat well.


Thanks for the advice! I run my dampers max rear and 2 clicks away from full stiff in the front. My sway bars are both at full stiff. I will adjust my front sway bar . The car does push a lot going into a corner I feel.
babykwiss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2017, 12:57 PM   #3326
Racecomp Engineering
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Drives: 2016 BRZ, 2012 Paris Di2 & 2018 STI
Location: Severn, MD
Posts: 5,393
Thanks: 3,406
Thanked 7,233 Times in 2,957 Posts
Mentioned: 303 Post(s)
Tagged: 9 Thread(s)
Send a message via AIM to Racecomp Engineering
Quote:
Originally Posted by babykwiss View Post
What would cause the driver side front tire to wear out A LOT faster on the outside compared to all the other 3 on the track. Recently went to Shannonville (Canada, Ontario) and the track has a lot of right turns. My current alignemt is Front -3.3 / Rear -2.5. Running 245/40/17 RE71R on 17x9. Trying to correct my setup before I buy a new set of tires.
Quote:
Originally Posted by babykwiss View Post
Im running Tein Street flex 7k/7k. I am actually running Eibach sway bars all around. Both on full stiff settings. The car DOES tend to understeer more than oversteer on throttle. Could it also be my driving? I feel like O go in to hot into a corner, resulting in the tire scrubbing of speed. Im probably wrong
As mentioned I would reduce understeer. Try softening front bar, but I'm not sure that will completely solve the problem. I would also consider reducing front rebound damping (one change at a time though). Also could be some gains from adjusting driving style but hard to say from here. You will get more driver side front tire wear with a lot of right turns though.

- Andrew
Racecomp Engineering is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2017, 12:58 PM   #3327
Racecomp Engineering
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Drives: 2016 BRZ, 2012 Paris Di2 & 2018 STI
Location: Severn, MD
Posts: 5,393
Thanks: 3,406
Thanked 7,233 Times in 2,957 Posts
Mentioned: 303 Post(s)
Tagged: 9 Thread(s)
Send a message via AIM to Racecomp Engineering
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teseo View Post
Guys enlight me, i want to lower my car and im considering yellow springs on my stock shocks but the shocks have 63k miles on it, i commute 44 miles a day 35 are highway the rest is backroads. My concern is, can i install springs and lets say the shocks will last until 100k miles on new yellows or is prudent to buy coilovers instead? I want to keep on budget and coilovers are overkill for me but i seen some coilovers of Tein (street basis z) that fit my budget.
Tough to say since everyone's results will be different when it comes to lifetime of a shock. Many do make it to 100k or more. You could always just add Bilstein B6 when the time comes.

- Andrew
Racecomp Engineering is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Racecomp Engineering For This Useful Post:
Teseo (07-19-2017)
Old 07-20-2017, 03:12 AM   #3328
SmartedPanda
Senior Member
 
SmartedPanda's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Drives: SWP BRZ Limited Manual. 2014
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 647
Thanks: 155
Thanked 155 Times in 115 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Another n00b here with very little suspension knowledge (I have been reading!)

Budget $1500ish or lower.
Goal: DD 95% of the time, 5% spirited driving with possibility of an autox once on the coils.
Drop: less than an inch never more due work speed bumps already scraping stock setup. Think LA but better.
Tires by end of this year: MPSS 245/40r17

Probably SPC LCA unless I can be convinced otherwise.

I was looking at Tein Mono Sport, is this too much for a DD car? I was also looking at the Flex A.
Goal is more OEM+ than track monster, needs to pass the GF test and lower back test.
Taking other suggestions, from what I've read this budget isn't great 2-3 years ago.
__________________
[| Blox 490 Knob | Mishimoto Silicon Intake | K&N Filter | DD Always-On DRL | Tomei 60S | Weather Tech | RED USDM TOM's Tail Lights | OEM Underbody Panels | Intec High Mount Brake | RexSpeed Heated Wide Mirrors | TC105N 17x9 | Super Sport 245/40R17 |TRD Quickshifter | Porsche Brake Air Duct | TRD Sliding Armrest| OEM Knee Pads | MTEC Shifter Springs| WRX OEM Oil Cooler| Generic PVC Catch Can|]
SmartedPanda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2017, 07:53 AM   #3329
ApexEight
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Drives: 2014 Subaru BRZ Limited 6MT SSM
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 293
Thanks: 195
Thanked 68 Times in 54 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartedPanda View Post
Another n00b here with very little suspension knowledge (I have been reading!)

Budget $1500ish or lower.
Goal: DD 95% of the time, 5% spirited driving with possibility of an autox once on the coils.
Drop: less than an inch never more due work speed bumps already scraping stock setup. Think LA but better.
Tires by end of this year: MPSS 245/40r17

Probably SPC LCA unless I can be convinced otherwise.

I was looking at Tein Mono Sport, is this too much for a DD car? I was also looking at the Flex A.
Goal is more OEM+ than track monster, needs to pass the GF test and lower back test.
Taking other suggestions, from what I've read this budget isn't great 2-3 years ago.

Can't go wrong with a Bilsten B6 and RCE Yellow combo since you're not looking for much of a drop. Performance will be greatly improved with very little to any added harshness compared to stock. Get some camber bolts up front and those SPC LCAs and a mildy aggressive alignment and you have a super solid setup that will be perfect for a DD that will be in your budget. I'm sure the other guys would agree.
ApexEight is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ApexEight For This Useful Post:
Racecomp Engineering (07-20-2017)
Old 07-20-2017, 12:38 PM   #3330
SmartedPanda
Senior Member
 
SmartedPanda's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Drives: SWP BRZ Limited Manual. 2014
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 647
Thanks: 155
Thanked 155 Times in 115 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexEight View Post
Can't go wrong with a Bilsten B6 and RCE Yellow combo since you're not looking for much of a drop. Performance will be greatly improved with very little to any added harshness compared to stock. Get some camber bolts up front and those SPC LCAs and a mildy aggressive alignment and you have a super solid setup that will be perfect for a DD that will be in your budget. I'm sure the other guys would agree.
Note $1500 is for the strut + spring, I'm budgeting out the SPC LCA separately.

Would Flex A be harsher or less sports oriented? Flex A is still mentally on top due to top hat included.
How about the B14 (on sale now) with some Velox top hats?
Similiar Comparason for anyone else looking.
Great suggestion, didn't even think of B6/B8's + RCE Yellows.

Thanks.
__________________
[| Blox 490 Knob | Mishimoto Silicon Intake | K&N Filter | DD Always-On DRL | Tomei 60S | Weather Tech | RED USDM TOM's Tail Lights | OEM Underbody Panels | Intec High Mount Brake | RexSpeed Heated Wide Mirrors | TC105N 17x9 | Super Sport 245/40R17 |TRD Quickshifter | Porsche Brake Air Duct | TRD Sliding Armrest| OEM Knee Pads | MTEC Shifter Springs| WRX OEM Oil Cooler| Generic PVC Catch Can|]
SmartedPanda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2017, 01:31 PM   #3331
Racecomp Engineering
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Drives: 2016 BRZ, 2012 Paris Di2 & 2018 STI
Location: Severn, MD
Posts: 5,393
Thanks: 3,406
Thanked 7,233 Times in 2,957 Posts
Mentioned: 303 Post(s)
Tagged: 9 Thread(s)
Send a message via AIM to Racecomp Engineering
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartedPanda View Post
Note $1500 is for the strut + spring, I'm budgeting out the SPC LCA separately.

Would Flex A be harsher or less sports oriented? Flex A is still mentally on top due to top hat included.
How about the B14 (on sale now) with some Velox top hats?
Similiar Comparason for anyone else looking.
Great suggestion, didn't even think of B6/B8's + RCE Yellows.

Thanks.
Do you need/want camber plates?

- Andrew
Racecomp Engineering is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2017, 03:33 PM   #3332
churchx
Senior Member
 
churchx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Drives: 2014 GT86
Location: Latvia, Riga
Posts: 4,333
Thanks: 696
Thanked 2,085 Times in 1,436 Posts
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
He may wish for more camber then with bolts-only.
churchx is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Air Suspension Discussion Thread - Let's Get Nerdy Andrew@ORT Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing 174 02-13-2016 03:17 PM
RallySport Directs Everything Suspension thread!! RallySport Direct Brakes, Suspension, Chassis 21 07-02-2014 05:31 PM
The OFFICIAL Ohlins Coilover Suspension thread - High End Competition Suspension ModBargains.com Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing 63 05-22-2013 08:15 AM
2012 Team USA vs the 1992 Dream Team ERZperformance Off-Topic Lounge [WARNING: NO POLITICS] 1 09-14-2012 06:19 PM
Team build thread; PROJECT.STH trueno86power Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions 0 03-02-2010 10:13 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.