2016 Honda Civic Thread (10th gen)

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by unhappymeal

Nah, give me adequate power and a car that talks to me.

They tried cars that talk to you in the 80s. People hated them. I still wake up in the middle of the night screaming "The door is ajar. The door is ajar. The door is ajar. The door is ajar."

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

They tried cars that talk to you in the 80s. People hated them. I still wake up in the middle of the night screaming "The door is ajar. The door is ajar. The door is ajar. The door is ajar."

I'm OK with talking cars as long as it's this one, maybe with Olivia Newton John's voice instead of William Daniels'.

"Good morning, Dadhawk. I love you, I honestly love you"

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by krayzie

I miss driving the Integra just from watching that video, that low driving position is spot on.

I went about a month without driving my Integra GS-R (got a new DD). Took it out for a spin one evening and I was like, my God I missed driving this car. So low to the ground, such a big greenhouse with great visibility, and that 8100 rpm redline. Oh how I missed it. Was gonna sell it, but now...uhh, nope!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I'm OK with talking cars as long as it's this one, maybe with Olivia Newton John's voice instead of William Daniels'.

"Good morning, Dadhawk. I love you, I honestly love you"

Well as long as she is happy with you. Otherwise...

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Are those the same 10 people that bought the original S2000? That's essentially the same formula as the original S2000 and NSX, and neither of those cars did well in the US from a sales volume perspective.

Seems to have panned out alright for the 86...

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Seems to have panned out alright for the 86...

In their first full CY of sales, the Twins combined only had 1/4 of the sales volume of the Camaro or Mustang individually (and both of those cars were older in their development cycles.)



That ended up being fine for Toyota/Subaru mainly because of their modest US sales targets, but as I said if Honda is serious about capturing market share in the US with the S2000, they really need to factor in performance/HP/TQ for the dollar.

On the other hand if their goal is just to cater to a handful of petrolheads who want a RWD driver's car, they should absolutely follow in the footsteps of Toyota/Subaru with the Twins (or Mazda with the RX-7/8 and Miata, Honda with the original S2000/NSX, Nissan with the 350/370z, etc. etc.) But we all know how the majority of those stories end.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

In their first full CY of sales, the Twins combined only had 1/4 of the sales volume of the Camaro or Mustang individually (and both of those cars were older in their development cycles.)

The 86 has outsold every affordable RWD Japanese sports car sold in the US in the last 10-ish years except the 350Z. Hell in <5 years there were more 86's on US roads than Honda could sell S2000's over 10 years.

I'd say they smashed expectations, nobody expected this thing to be a Mustang/Camaro killer. I thought this thing would undersell the RX-8, and never even touch the NC Miata, instead it matched the NC Miata's curve when it was new and only just now is the ND selling more month to month now that their supply is strong and the markups are dropping.

"we all know how those stories end"
With tens of thousands of happy enthusiasts? I'm not going to sit here and tell them to make a loss leader, nor will I promise to buy it, but praise from me if they do.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

The 86 has outsold every affordable RWD Japanese sports car sold in the US in the last 10-ish years except the 350Z. Hell in <5 years there were more 86's on US roads than Honda could sell S2000's over 10 years.

I'd say they smashed expectations, nobody expected this thing to be a Mustang/Camaro killer. I thought this thing would undersell the RX-8, and never even touch the NC Miata, instead it matched the NC Miata's curve when it was new and only just now is the ND selling more month to month now that their supply is strong and the markups are dropping.

"we all know how those stories end"
With tens of thousands of happy enthusiasts? I'm not going to sit here and tell them to make a loss leader, nor will I promise to buy it, but praise from me if they do.

Yeah that's my point though. If Honda wants the next S2000 to be a car that epitomizes their brand values and happens to make a few thousand enthusiasts happy (similar to the "zoom zoom" Miata with Mazda or the last S2000 with Honda), that's great and I might even buy one especially if they offer a legit coupe. But if they want to set their business sights a little higher and capture some of the huge Camaro/Mustang market, they'll have to change their approach.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

But if they want to set their business sights a little higher and capture some of the huge Camaro/Mustang market, they'll have to change their approach.

I wonder how many Si's they sell... in 2014 they sold 325,000 Civic's, if 10% were Si models that would put them 6th on that sporty car list behind the Fiat 500... which lets be honest probably shouldn't be on there, which makes them 5th behind the Mustang/Camaro/Challenger/Corvette. Hell I'd take an Si over at least a third of the cars on that list.

Maybe they're rather satisfied with their current section of USA's 'sporty car market'

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I wonder how many Si's they sell... in 2014 they sold 325,000 Civic's, if 10% were Si models that would put them 6th on that sporty car list behind the Fiat 500... which lets be honest probably shouldn't be on there, which makes them 5th behind the Mustang/Camaro/Challenger/Corvette. Hell I'd take an Si over at least a third of the cars on that list.

Maybe they're rather satisfied with their current section of USA's 'sporty car market'

Didn't the last gen Civic Si sell really poorly? There's a reference on Wiki that says Honda decided not to produce the Civic Si in 2016 in the US due to poor sales. I can't seem to find any sales numbers.

I'm with you though, I think the last-gen Si was underappreciated, especially the pre-update version with the k20 engine. Would love to have one in sedan form!

[krayzie]

But that rev hang in stock form...

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Didn't the last gen Civic Si sell really poorly? There's a reference on Wiki that says Honda decided not to produce the Civic Si in 2016 in the US due to poor sales.

That was the Civic that bombed, they made it cheap and everybody called it shit and sales dipped, they probably dropped the Si model to pinch pennies while they overhauled for the 10th gen. Enthusiasts tend to be a bit more sensitive to reviews, makes sense the Si likely performed even worse than the standard eco-box.

From wiki:

Following its launch, the new model was widely panned by the automotive press due to the poor quality of its interior and ride, and for the first time, it failed to earn a Consumer Reports recommendation. In an unprecedented move, Honda made significant interior and exterior redesigns the following year to address these issues, but market share in the compact car segment showed a marked decline from the previous generation.

And they still moved >300k units each year from 2012-2016...

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

[IMG]In their first full CY of sales, the Twins combined only had 1/4 of the sales volume of the Camaro or Mustang individually (and both of those cars were older in their development cycles.)

Well, to be fair, the Twins were never supposed to be manufactured or sold anywhere near the volume of the Camaro/Mustang variants.

Also, while I know its a little different the Twins should be treated as one model in these types of charts, so their sales would be in 8th place right above the Tc.

To me, this is no different than the Camaro/Mustang variants all being listed on one line. OK, so a base Camaro and a ZL1 share mostly the same body but that's about all they have in common. Whereas the twins are basically the same car with different trim levels whether sold as a Toyota/Scion or Subaru.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by krayzie

But that rev hang in stock form...

Isn't that just a stock tune issue? That's what all the owners say anyway lol.

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Well, to be fair, the Twins were never supposed to be manufactured or sold anywhere near the volume of the Camaro/Mustang variants.

Also, while I know its a little different the Twins should be treated as one model in these types of charts, so their sales would be in 8th place right above the Tc.

To me, this is no different than the Camaro/Mustang variants all being listed on one line. OK, so a base Camaro and a ZL1 share mostly the same body but that's about all they have in common. Whereas the twins are basically the same car with different trim levels whether sold as a Toyota/Scion or Subaru.

Yeah that's why I combined the numbers for the Twins but they were still just 1/4 of the sales of the Mustang or Camaro individually.

Also agree the Twins were never meant to be volume sellers like those cars, but they sell so well Japanese car manufacturers have to be salivating at the thought of taking some of their market share. Not sure if Honda will try with the next S2000 but the two segments (domestic and Japanese sports cars) have converged significantly over the past 15 years since the original S2000 was first released. Dynamically the Mustang and Camaro have arguably now become true "driver's cars". Perhaps in response Honda will start focusing a bit more on performance numbers and value. They seem to have started with the prior two generations of CTR.