Forced Induction *chat* cause we know this girl needs more power

[Jeff86]

Ok. All other automotive forums I participate in have a chat threads that help keep the whoring out of threads about specific products. So let's talk about all this here.

It's badass that we have choices... the more the better imo, but the arguments are all valid... we want a good value, we want reliability, some need carb cert, etc. We may not all agree, but we should keep the whoring out of the other threads so that searches can be done easier without wading through arguments.

A chat thread is also great place for newbs to ask questions of guys who have done FI before on their own cars. I'm sure many of us have real world experience installing, tuning and driving cars with both turbo and supercharger systems.

[subatoy]

first!

[White Shadow]

There's been lots of chatter about a factory turbo in the near future. Personally, I'm taking a "wait and see" approach.

Or are you only talking about aftermarket turbo applications?

[Celica00]

unfortunately i doubt this'll stop ppl from shitting in other threads

[subatoy]

Originally Posted by White Shadow

There's been lots of chatter about a factory turbo in the near future. Personally, I'm taking a "wait and see" approach.

Or are you only talking about aftermarket turbo applications?

mmm is this hte old rumors or new rumors you are talking about?
because it has been officialy said MANY times there won't be a turbo BRZ/FRS.

Subaru has a problem with Scion offering the SC because they will be offering the STI version and I don't see Subaru getting much power out of this engine without FI.

[Jeff86]

Originally Posted by White Shadow

There's been lots of chatter about a factory turbo in the near future. Personally, I'm taking a "wait and see" approach.

Or are you only talking about aftermarket turbo applications?

OEM systems are very interesting... certainly this is not exclusively about aftermarket. Lots of guys are already shouting down a TRD supercharger for instance, but it's all speculation as to what (if) TRD will deliver and if it will be competitive.

[White Shadow]

Originally Posted by subatoy

mmm is this hte old rumors or new rumors you are talking about?
because it has been officialy said MANY times there won't be a turbo BRZ/FRS.

Subaru has a problem with Scion offering the SC because they will be offering the STI version and I don't see Subaru getting much power out of this engine without FI.

Old rumors, new rumors, it's all the same to me.

Here's what I'd like to see: Scion offering the FR-S with a factory supercharger and Subaru offering the BRZ with a factory turbocharger. But in reality, I think Toyota/Scion will most likely just stick with a TRD supercharger kit to be installed after the car is purchased. I do believe the BRZ will get a factory turbo though, despite what has been "officially" said in the past.

[White Shadow]

Originally Posted by Jeff86

OEM systems are very interesting... certainly this is not exclusively about aftermarket. Lots of guys are already shouting down a TRD supercharger for instance, but it's all speculation as to what (if) TRD will deliver and if it will be competitive.

Aftermarket systems can be awesome (turbos or blowers, any FI will do) because they often have big power capability, but I'd be more than happy with a factory turbo that adds just 80 - 100 HP, as long as the torque goes up by at least 100 points over the N/A rating. That's certainly within reason for these engines.

[subatoy]

Originally Posted by White Shadow

Old rumors, new rumors, it's all the same to me.

Here's what I'd like to see: Scion offering the FR-S with a factory supercharger and Subaru offering the BRZ with a factory turbocharger. But in reality, I think Toyota/Scion will most likely just stick with a TRD supercharger kit to be installed after the car is purchased. I do believe the BRZ will get a factory turbo though, despite what has been "officially" said in the past.

old rumors means it has been said IT WON'T happen.

[White Shadow]

Originally Posted by subatoy

old rumors means it has been said IT WON'T happen.

Like I said, rumors are rumors. It doesn't matter to me if they are new or old. What cracks me up is all the guys who've said that the "official" word is that there will not be forced induction from the factory on these cars. Just because it was said doesn't mean it's gospel.

Ford said the same thing about the Cobra Mustang back in the 1999. By 2003, the Cobra came with a factory supercharger. So it took a few years, but it did indeed happen, despite Ford's "official" word.

[dem00n]

Personally, the way the character of this car is and all that jazz, anything over 400HP will kill this car. I don't mean physically, i mean the character. It'll become another GTR, just something people want more and more power for. I don't want to the see the FRS become another soulless and dull car people only buy for doing insane power mods.
I don't want it to have the Supra mentality, that every Supra needs 700HP, because everyone who has never seen or been in Supra thinks all of them are modified to the max. The FRS needs to have that vision, a lightweight, nimble and extremely responsive sports car without the need for to much power.

I know a lot of people will disagree but i just have different views for cars. Now i'm not saying modding in anyway is wrong, i support modding all the way but a lot of the time it just gets to much.

Well, we all know the FRS goes downhill when we see it in a Team Innovated video.

[mike2100]

First, allow me to sum up my knowledge/experience:

In the past, I would separate power and handling. I bought an RX-8 when they first came out and figured I would "fix" the lack of power by adding a turbo. Should be easy right? Its predecessor, the RX-7 was also turbocharged.
But let me back up even before that. Ever since I was a kid I wanted to be a race car driver. Unfortunately, the sum of my racing experience came from playing video games, watching Initial D, and driving my 95 Honda Civic stupidly fast on the country roads of Southern Virginia. I thought that since Gran Turismo was hailed as the "most realistic" racing game that I was all set - completely prepared!

And then in the fall of 2010 I attended my first HPDE in a Miata I had just bought. My world turned upside down. The (Christian) religious equivalent would be finding Jesus.
Suddenly it all started to click. It was no longer just about hitting apexes and mashing the throttle out of a turn. I discovered weight transfer and the friction circle, and why I learned to be smooth while tearing around back roads at over 70 mph.

I say all of that for two reasons.
1) I'm trying to get opinions from the folks who have real world experience driving different cars with different forms of aspiration on the edge of friction.
2) Shameless plug for HPDE. I'm really trying not to talk down to folks who haven't done it. I guess I just assume that anyone who drives a car like this has at least a secret desire to be a race car driver. I had no idea a good first step to that is HPDE. I used to think the key to being good was driving flat out!

But let me spell this out: there's nothing wrong with not wanting to drive this car on a road course. If it doesn't interest you, feel free to ignore this post! Some people want more power for driving around on the street, flying down a drag strip, whatever. That's ok!

So with all that said let's talk forced induction on a road course.
Ignoring natural aspiration, what's the best? I'm limited to my experience with N/A cars at the track and to my research into forced induction. I get the feeling that centrifugal supercharging is the best.
I get that feeling because it seems that careful throttle modulation will be easier than with a twin-screw or a turbo, and therefore dancing on the edge of the friction circle will be easier.

Feel free to say "duh, of course" or "no, you're wrong and here's why."

[madfast]

Originally Posted by mike2100

So with all that said let's talk forced induction on a road course.
Ignoring natural aspiration, what's the best? I'm limited to my experience with N/A cars at the track and to my research into forced induction. I get the feeling that centrifugal supercharging is the best.
I get that feeling because it seems that careful throttle modulation will be easier than with a twin-screw or a turbo, and therefore dancing on the edge of the friction circle will be easier.

positive displacement SC is best imo. it effectively makes the engine feel like a larger displacement engine. the tq curve is usually the same shape just MOAR of it

[cobrabyte]

Originally Posted by madfast

positive displacement SC is best imo. it effectively makes the engine feel like a larger displacement engine. the tq curve is usually the same shape just MOAR of it

I noticed your dyno plot is from BOE Fabrication. These guys do a great job in the Lotus supercharging world and I was wondering if you've heard from them about getting into the 86 platform.