2020 Toyota GR Supra Revealed!

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by Kaotic Lazagna

^ so even the 4-cylinder won't come in a manual. Unless someone is really desperate to have a MKV Supra, I would think they would just save up a little more and get the 6. Or they actually plan on swapping the engines...

I think the 4 cylinder version will do very well here if they can price it right. I think some people might stretch their budget of 25-35k to 40k if it means getting a chance to own a Supra. It will be strange if it comes with less horsepower than the 86 though.

[ichitaka05]

Not gonna lie, I would love to see 4 cylinder Supra come to US. What Tada-san claim, 4 cylinder ver (B46) have a true 50/50 F/R weight ratio... vs 6 cylinder ver (B58) is a bit front heavy. Adding the driver into the calculation makes it 50/50. (it might vary w driver weight) So it would be interesting to see which 50/50 F/R weight ratio is ideal for new Supra.

Also main test driver for new Supra claim, if he had a choice between 4 cyl or 6 cyl, he would choose 4 cyl. What's that mean? Not really sure but he was one of the student of Naruse, (who was the master driver for A80 Supra) so pretty sure he know things or two bout the Supra.

[gymratter]

https://www.carscoops.com/2019/04/fo...at-this-point/

While the document suggests the 2.0-liter engine could be offered in the US-spec Supra, Toyota downplayed this possibility in statements to Jalopnik and Road & Track. As a spokesperson explained, “BMW took steps to certify an engine for a variety of uses” and “at this point, Toyota’s plans for the Supra in the U.S. include only the 3.0-liter inline-six that will be in the 2020 Supra when it goes on sale this summer.”

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

one of the student of Naruse, (who was the master driver for A80 Supra) so pretty sure he know things or two bout the Supra.

See this is what I don't get. If Naruse is as good as legend claims to be in car tuning, why is that everytime I ask past Toyota sports car owners they always tell me the stock tuning is no good being too soft and GT like? Blame it on the committee? Lotus was proven too hardcore for them during the early 80's? Too much to handle for the target upmarket buyer since that time?

Then there's the western marketing team that wouldn't know how to sell a 4 cylinder Supra that apparently makes 3 hp less while weighing a ton more than the 86 for more money. The arm chair sports car enthusiasts on the interweb would surely disapprove such a product at the first keystroke.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by gymratter

https://www.carscoops.com/2019/04/fo...at-this-point/

I don’t believe the spokesperson. It’ll be a later release but they will probably sell the 4 cylinder. The 30i Z4 is $15k cheaper than the 40i, so maybe $35k for the Supra. I would definitely consider the Supra over a used Cayman at that price.

[ZDan]

I'm more interested in the 4 cylinder than the 6. Less weight, better distributed, lower less $$$, likely tunable for plenty of power because turbo.

However I still think a cab-rearward 2-seater built on the FT86 platform with a 300+hp Lexus V6 would make a cooler sports car while filling a niche no one is even trying to fill at the moment...

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by ZDan

I'm more interested in the 4 cylinder than the 6. Less weight, better distributed, lower less $$$, likely tunable for plenty of power because turbo.

I wouldn't say, it's more tune-able than B58. Both B46 & B58 have so much potential for power. B58 can handle up to 600PS safely, as for B46... not 100% I didn't ask Tada-san on that one. If you wanna see big numbers, def go w B58.

RZ, SZ-R & SZ all are 1,000,000 yen difference (roughly $10k). Let's say Toyota US follow same concept, 3.0 Premium cost $53,990, so we could see 4 cylinder Premium ver at $43,990. 3.0 Base cost $49,990, so we could see base 4 cylinder ver at $39,990. So around $40k~$44k for 255hp/295tq that barely under 3,200lbs. (1,450kg) That price is 370Z, Mustang, Camaro price point.. But they're boat! But they have a lot more power plus MT option.

So in the end, you gotta pick your battle.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

, so we could see base 4 cylinder ver at $39,990. So around $40k~$44k for 355hp/295tq that barely under 3,200lbs.

Why are you using the price of the 4 cylinder, but the horsepower from the 6 cylinder? Am I missing something?

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

Why are you using the price of the 4 cylinder, but the horsepower from the 6 cylinder? Am I missing something?

Not 6 cylinder ver... just my fat finger. B58 have 335hp/365tq vs B46 is 255hp/295tq. See the difference? I just accidentally pushed “3” instead of “2”

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

I wouldn't say, it's more tune-able than B58. Both B46 & B58 have so much potential for power. B58 can handle up to 600PS safely, as for B46... not 100% I didn't ask Tada-san on that one. If you wanna see big numbers, def go w B58.

I didn't mean to imply the 4 would be any more tuneable, and of course the bigger 6 has much more ultimate power potential. My point is that there's likely potential for 300+ hp in the turbo 4 for relatively little effort/$$$, unlike with an NA car like the 86.

I'm more interested in the 4-cylinder Supra with potential for 300+ hp over the 6-cylinder with potential for 600+ or whatever. I would hope they start out with the 255hp version and not the 194hp one though! At 255hp I might just leave the powerplant alone for a good long while...

So around $40k~$44k for 255hp/295tq that barely under 3,200lbs. (1,450kg) That price is 370Z, Mustang, Camaro price point.. But they're boat! But they have a lot more power plus MT option.

I hope it does come in under 3200 lb., but just think where weight would be if they built a proper 2-seat cab-rearward sports car on the FT86 platform. Oh well!

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by ZDan

I didn't mean to imply the 4 would be any more tuneable, and of course the bigger 6 has much more ultimate power potential. My point is that there's likely potential for 300+ hp in the turbo 4 for relatively little effort/$$$, unlike with an NA car like the 86.

I'm more interested in the 4-cylinder Supra with potential for 300+ hp over the 6-cylinder with potential for 600+ or whatever. I would hope they start out with the 255hp version and not the 194hp one though! At 255hp I might just leave the powerplant alone for a good long while...

I hope it does come in under 3200 lb., but just think where weight would be if they built a proper 2-seat cab-rearward sports car on the FT86 platform. Oh well!

Yeah, if you're looking at mild tune, B46 might be an option.

A90 chassis is a lot stiff/stronger than FT86 and better off using A90 chassis. Especially if you're looking into 300~400hp.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Yeah, if you're looking at mild tune, B46 might be an option.
A90 chassis is a lot stiff/stronger than FT86 and better off using A90 chassis. Especially if you're looking into 300~400hp.

300/400hp doesn't really require more chassis stiffness IMO... As for strength, road loads are *far* more significant than engine loads. Generally there's going to be enough margin in the load paths for the engine loads (taking into account hard launches and/or extremely poor clutch modulation) that for a reasonably driven car you can add a LOT of power and torque without affecting durability or tearing out engine mounts.

Also, a dedicated 2-seater based on the FT86 would automatically be stiffer vs. FT86 anyway given a shorter wheelbase!

[unhappymeal]

An interesting interview with Tada-san on the Supra came out today in Jalopnik. Once of the best tidbits released had nothing to do with the Supra, but the 86:

“Aside from the Supra, there aren’t too many cars in existence now where a inline-six would better than the engines we’ve already built,” he said. “In the past lots of automakers had straight sixes. You should know exactly why” there are fewer of them these days, he said. “It’s a very difficult engine to package. You lose space for the driver and the passenger.”

Tada said he was similarly “bombarded” when the Toyota 86 and its twin the Subaru BRZ came out. Fans wondered why a Toyota sports car should use a Subaru Boxer engine. But the answer was the same, he said.

“Everyone thinks it was for a low center of gravity, but that’s not true,” he said. “We always wanted (the 86) to be a 2+2. And Boxer engines are very short,” ideal for such an application.

There was also quite a bit of discussion as to why it was a joint venture. Tada theorizes that if it was a purely Toyota car, it would've taken 2+ more years, a new factory and have a price tag over $100,000. Of course, to those who know the industry, this is no surprise.

https://jalopnik.com/why-the-2020-to...why-1834540861

[qcbaker]

Originally Posted by unhappymeal

An interesting interview with Tada-san on the Supra came out today in Jalopnik. Once of the best tidbits released had nothing to do with the Supra, but the 86:



There was also quite a bit of discussion as to why it was a joint venture. Tada theorizes that if it was a purely Toyota car, it would've taken 2+ more years, a new factory and have a price tag over $100,000. Of course, to those who know the industry, this is no surprise.

https://jalopnik.com/why-the-2020-to...why-1834540861

Interested to see how "what would you change about the 86" threads will play out now that Tada is on record as saying the boxer configuration is NOT for low CoG and just because its short enough to allow the car to be a 2+2.