Tiff Needell on Toyota GT86

[Boxer-4]

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[RaceR]

Well written!

[Texas BRZ]

Great read, thank you for sharing, OP.

I'm on Tiff's side...

Come on all manufacturers! We need you guys to be inspired by this car and its simplicity / beauty / affordabilty, which there is still a demand for... I feel.

[Bristecom]

Originally Posted by Texas FR-S

Great read, thank you for sharing, OP.

I'm on Tiff's side...

Come on all manufacturers! We need you guys to be inspired by this car and its simplicity / beauty / affordabilty, which there is still a demand for... I feel.

Although I certainly want to see more competition for this car, I feel that it may be too late for them. Toyota/Subaru have done such a good job with this car at this price point that it's hard to imagine competition arising that could out-do it. Not to mention, this car will likely only get better in time with minor revisions over the years. But never the less, I still think manufacturers are better off making affordable RWD or AWD sport coupes vs. more stupid hot hatches and grocery getters.

So yeah, like I had been saying for years, it wasn't that there isn't a market for sports cars anymore, it's that they've just been doing it wrong for so long. They were either too expensive, too impractical/inefficient, too ugly, or just not that good/fun. The Toyota 86/BRZ proves that this was true by doing it right.

[Texas BRZ]

Originally Posted by Bristecom

Although I certainly want to see more competition for this car, I feel that it may be too late for them. Toyota/Subaru have done such a good job with this car at this price point that it's hard to imagine competition arising that could out-do it. Not to mention, this car will likely only get better in time with minor revisions over the years. But never the less, I still think manufacturers are better off making affordable RWD or AWD sport coupes vs. more stupid hot hatches and grocery getters.

So yeah, like I had been saying for years, it wasn't that there isn't a market for sports cars anymore, it's that they've just been doing it wrong for so long. They were either too expensive, too impractical/inefficient, too ugly, or just not that good/fun. The Toyota 86/BRZ proves that this was true by doing it right.

I'm afraid that your words may very well be correct.

Realistically, there may not be massive crowds of people who will buy a sports car in the first place. Making them pricier (as you have mentioned) lessens the desire for one even more so.

I feel the manufacturers may have been trying too hard to sell performance cars to the masses by placing majority of their focus on making them with more options, more power, and more luxuries / conveniences... In order to try to give customers what they may want to have, and also trying too hard to compete against with what each others competition had to offer. But that in turn diluted the beauty of a sports car, and what it once stood for. It may have accomplished the performance numbers on paper, but it never reached the heart of certain enthusiasts (well, my heart, at least)... And then again comes the steep price tag which makes certain cars only a dream to ever acquire.

Yes, you may very well be right on in that Toyota / Subaru has gotten a head start... We can only hope that more manufacturers would jump in (along with some rumors)... Yet what we always would like to happen doesn't have to come true later in our future, and it's best to keep expectations low while being grateful for what has recently been presented to us within the Toyobaru.

[Frost]

Why does everyone conveniently forget about the Mazda Miata / MX5 in praising the FR-S/GT-86/BRZ? Don't get me wrong, I LIKE the twins but you have to give credit where credit is due and Mazda has been building the Miata forever (well, not really but it's been through 3 generations).

So now on the market, we have the Miata and the Twins as affordable RWD sports cars. I am looking forward to see what the next gen Miata is going to do as we are well due for the next iteration.

Long live the tiny RWDs!

[Tt3Sheppard]

I think it all comes down to people not wanting a sports car. I mean I can sit in a parking lot and count 10 trucks/SUVs for every 1 car. Americans just like big, heavy, useless vehicles. Perhaps the market for affordable sports cars should be directed more towards Europe where everyone drives a manual.

[Freeman]

Originally Posted by Tt3Sheppard

I think it all comes down to people not wanting a sports car. I mean I can sit in a parking lot and count 10 trucks/SUVs for every 1 car. Americans just like big, heavy, useless vehicles. Perhaps the market for affordable sports cars should be directed more towards Europe where everyone drives a manual.

Useless? Maybe it's my lack of sleep, but I'm having a hard time understanding how a truck or SUV is useless.

I will concede that Americans like Big and heavy cars. Every time I talk to someone about it, they mention how their perception of a big SUV or Truck is that it's a larger,safer vehicle that isn't fuel efficient, but is more useful than a small sports car. But useless? Well I guess that depends on what you're trying to do with it.

[ST185RC]

Originally Posted by Bristecom

Although I certainly want to see more competition for this car, I feel that it may be too late for them. Toyota/Subaru have done such a good job with this car at this price point that it's hard to imagine competition arising that could out-do it. Not to mention, this car will likely only get better in time with minor revisions over the years. But never the less, I still think manufacturers are better off making affordable RWD or AWD sport coupes vs. more stupid hot hatches and grocery getters.

So yeah, like I had been saying for years, it wasn't that there isn't a market for sports cars anymore, it's that they've just been doing it wrong for so long. They were either too expensive, too impractical/inefficient, too ugly, or just not that good/fun. The Toyota 86/BRZ proves that this was true by doing it right.

It's never too late. We all thought Toyota was never going to come out with another sports car after killing the Celica, MR2, starlet, Corolla/sprinter/trueno/levin sports coupes/hatchbacks (Trueno BZ-R should have really come to America as a Civic SIR competitor) Soarer & Supra.

Just look at Honda, they re-introduced their convertible sports car with the S2000 into the market with little amenities and creature comforts yet it was highly praised and won a few car of the year awards if I'm not mistaken. This was in the wake of the MX-5 dominating the sales of affordable roadsters for the masses; incredibly fun and easy to drive. Even Toyota had a hand at introducing the MR-2 Spyder. Now, doesn't the concept sound a bit like the 86 except it's hardtop coupe?

It just takes a daring company to jump into the pool without testing the waters with their toes first. It's been done before and it's being done presently. When someone sets the bar there will always be competition that will shoot for the moon.

[ST185RC]

Originally Posted by Frost

Why does everyone conveniently forget about the Mazda Miata / MX5 in praising the FR-S/GT-86/BRZ? Don't get me wrong, I LIKE the twins but you have to give credit where credit is due and Mazda has been building the Miata forever (well, not really but it's been through 3 generations).

So now on the market, we have the Miata and the Twins as affordable RWD sports cars. I am looking forward to see what the next gen Miata is going to do as we are well due for the next iteration.

Long live the tiny RWDs!

Lol beat me to it, damn work getting in the way of my forum chatter.

[whtchocla7e]

Originally Posted by Freeman

Useless? Maybe it's my lack of sleep, but I'm having a hard time understanding how a truck or SUV is useless.

He proabably meant to say "completely unecessary."

Which I agree with by the way. For 99% of the masses, a truck or SUV is completely unecessary.

[LIKEABOSS]

Originally Posted by Frost

Why does everyone conveniently forget about the Mazda Miata / MX5 in praising the FR-S/GT-86/BRZ? Don't get me wrong, I LIKE the twins but you have to give credit where credit is due and Mazda has been building the Miata forever (well, not really but it's been through 3 generations).

So now on the market, we have the Miata and the Twins as affordable RWD sports cars. I am looking forward to see what the next gen Miata is going to do as we are well due for the next iteration.

Long live the tiny RWDs!

If you really want to thank someone thank Ford and the Mustang. It has been the affordable RWD sports car since the 60's.

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by LIKEABOSS

If you really want to thank someone thank Ford and the Mustang. It has been the affordable RWD sports car since the 60's.

yeah but its the passion that's missing, the mustang looks like a mustang, but it always feels like it's missing something... maybe its too big of a car for me... i dunno, maybe im sitting too high up.. i dunno something doesnt seem "just right" like the twins make you feel

[LIKEABOSS]

Originally Posted by carbonBLUE

yeah but its the passion that's missing, the mustang looks like a mustang, but it always feels like it's missing something... maybe its too big of a car for me... i dunno, maybe im sitting too high up.. i dunno something doesnt seem "just right" like the twins make you feel

I feel pretty good in both!