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Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain. |
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12-05-2011, 10:35 PM | #29 |
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If left to Subaru alone, it would've been an overweight, overpriced, AWD understeer plagued 'sports' car that no doubt would've went the way of the SVX.
If they're seriously fighting about this now, this entire project is doomed in two years. |
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12-05-2011, 10:35 PM | #30 |
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Heh. This perceived rivalry between subaru and toyota its going to drive fan boy rivalries (and sales) to new levels. Great marketing! (I'll be buying which ever is lightest, and/or cheapest and/or most readily available because well, they are the same car)
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12-05-2011, 10:36 PM | #31 |
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There are so many potential problems with pistons, fuel pressure, injectors, timing, staging, etc. I did not at any point say they were unsolvable, but those potential headaches will be there and it will take significant time for solutions to become available.
When you are chasing horsepower, you want fewer headaches, not more. I've been modifying Subarus for more than 15 years and I just like elegant solutions to problems, rather than complex ones. One major attraction of the Subaru brand is they seem to think the same way. I find it interesting that Subaru's answer to D4S was "no thanks". I don't want to go ripping out brand new engines, but that does appear to be the most elegant solution. It certainly will be faster and may even be cheaper. |
12-05-2011, 11:05 PM | #32 | |
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As the D4-S operates now, it's 100% DI at full throttle, I believe. That gives you the whole port one for any enrichment that you may do after mods. (But how the pump and distribution two each one work, I don't know.) Yes it's new, but it sounds like just because you are out of your comfort zone, you're assuming the worst.
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12-05-2011, 11:19 PM | #33 |
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"chasing horsepower" is not what this car is about, FYI...........
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12-06-2011, 12:21 AM | #34 |
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I have some serious questions about tuning DI motors though:
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12-06-2011, 01:17 AM | #35 | |
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That engine made a 190hp @ 7000~7200rpm with a redline of 7600. This was 6 years ago (not counting the development time before 2004!)
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12-06-2011, 01:46 AM | #36 | |
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There are plenty of DI gurus arising from big shops that deals with DI, such as Cobb banging out plenty of fast Mazdaspeed 3s. (those are DI). The reason why many toyotas/Lexus with DI have not been tuned is due to the fact that the ECU is encrypted and people would rather not bother. The FRS/BRZ is one of the very few if not the only tuner friendly DI equipped car. 1. You do not need to source larger injectors for DI, theory says they never max out because they naturally atomize fuel at a leaner level. 2. If you do need more fuel, Port Injection is there to supplement any fuel needs. I hope this easies your worries..now go and learn more my child! GOOO FROLIC IN THE MEDOWS!
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12-06-2011, 02:30 AM | #37 | |||||
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All injectors, DI, EFI, NOS, or magic fairy dust have a duty cycle and are periodic, and 99% of the time are just a solenoid. They all have a maximum limits on open time. MS3s by the way very much have an injector-limited power level. Most turbos don't cross this threshold. Big turbo builds must replace injectors. It's not clear whether the aftermarket has adapted DI for this yet; many simply switch to port injection. Quote:
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12-06-2011, 02:33 AM | #38 |
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Lulz this thread reminds me when GM released the Cobalt SS and HHR SS with the 2.0 DI engine.
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12-06-2011, 02:40 AM | #39 |
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12-06-2011, 02:58 AM | #40 | |
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There should be a thread somewhere about a tuner who already has the car. Anyway...about the Atomization, your right theres no relation to duty cycle. However Iv read that not many people have crossed that threshold of maxing out DI injectors UNLESS they are doing big turbo. And the reason why people are having issues is because they cant figure out how to richen the mixture. So yes all injectors have power limits, but even on Cobb build articles they havent stated that they need bigger injectors, All i ever read is.."having trouble with being too lean" In Regards to the FA20/4U-GSE do you think you are going to be needing so much fuel that your DI injectors will max out? or will your Port Injectors not suppliment your fuel needs? If your going turbo, would it not be more cost effective to swap the engine for power goals rather than rebuild the entire block to accept FI and lower the compression if that were the case for fuel needs?
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12-06-2011, 04:33 AM | #41 | |
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I've been trying to find the dyno chart (subaru supplied chart from the .jp webpage) for that engine, but I don't think I saved it At one point I was about to try and import one of those motors... |
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12-06-2011, 04:40 AM | #42 |
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