Official: Toyota FT-1 Concept / First New Supra Prototype Spotted!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by rvoll

So you believe everything on the internet. I guess you're the one who needs the tinfoil cap.... There is a difference between "imagined renderings" and leaked documents. But I'm sure you can't "imagine" the difference between the two....

The article from R&T said nothing about the future of the 86, and if you read it, you'd know that. So there was no prediction there. The designer of the new Supra is the one that said it will also come in a 4 cyl version. So that's also a "rumor". After all, he's just the head designer of the program.

And the FACT that the GT86 designation was in that document is not even curious to you? Take some time, have your mother slap you a couple of times, and think about it....

Read back in context of what the others said and see if you can spot my sarcasm.

No they didn't say it was the end YOU did.

Go back and read my post about the GT designation. Yes it is very curious to me.

[Shark_Bait88]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

So nobody is questioning the use of the "GT86" on the "leaked" document? The GT86 is a trim level of the 86 model of car not a designation. Since they are using the J29 chassis code for the Supra then why not the ZN6 code of the 86? A company document would not mix a chassis code and a trim level name.

This was my thought process as well. Given the other items noted in parenthesis, for the Z4 as well, GT86 seems more likely a new chassis designation. Which clearly isn't linked to the ZN6 in any sort of format other than the number 6.

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

LOLOLOLOLOLOL
Nice source for your "leaked" document MT! Forums beat you to it by a week.
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=23435827

That only tends to support this contention more. I don't see your point except to back-up what MT has posted.

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Read back in context of what the others said and see if you can spot my sarcasm.

No they didn't say it was the end YOU did.

Go back and read my post about the GT designation. Yes it is very curious to me.

Yes, as that is the most probable conclusion from all of this information. Do you really disagree? Really?

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Yep. Referenced by five of the most reliable sites on the internet when it comes to accuracy of prediction!

Actually lol'd when I saw that last one.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by rvoll

That only tends to support this contention more. I don't see your point except to back-up what MT has posted.

OK so if I post a spreadsheet on this forum that states that the 300HP BRZ is coming out in two weeks and throw a bunch of random number in there and RT prints it up then it mus be true?
They got their "leaked" document fro a bloody forum.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by rvoll

Yes, as that is the most probable conclusion from all of this information. Do you really disagree? Really?

Yes I really disagree. You have taken an unconfirmed document that originated on a forum and run with it to conclusions that are just not reality.
There is no "information" anyplace in that. It is just speculation based upon some random pages pulled off a forum. Even if the document is real there is nothing there that says the 86 is done and the Supra will replace it. Nothing.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by rvoll

So you're familiar with Pahrump. Must be that chicken ranch place you visited there.... We'll see if you're right about the 86 continuing in the next year or so. Every piece of data we see shows it won't. But I'm sure you and @Tcoat, being kings of the forum, know a lot better. Working with an automotive supplier certainly makes you an expert on everything automotive, especially corporate strategy. My background is in corporate strategy, so we shall see who is right.... From a strategic perspective, this is an easy call. The only question I have is about the BRZ. I don't know the financials and have no idea about profit levels and breakeven calculations as well as relative Subaru corporate ROI's for competing projects or other uses for the manufacturing space. If the 86 is discontinued, the BRZ may even get a slight bump in volume. I suggest we leave this topic alone until the next piece of information comes in. I know you'll never admit I'm right about this even when it happens..... Your turn.....

I guess your 20+ years of owning a Porsche and 100 lbs wife is really paying off when it comes to automotive expertise eh? I can't get over your well thought over points and arguments, it's just blowing my mind. The 86 really is going to die this year.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by rvoll

So you're familiar with Pahrump. Must be that chicken ranch place you visited there.... We'll see if you're right about the 86 continuing in the next year or so. Every piece of data we see shows it won't. But I'm sure you and @Tcoat, being kings of the forum, know a lot better. Working with an automotive supplier certainly makes you an expert on everything automotive, especially corporate strategy. My background is in corporate strategy, so we shall see who is right.... From a strategic perspective, this is an easy call. The only question I have is about the BRZ. I don't know the financials and have no idea about profit levels and breakeven calculations as well as relative Subaru corporate ROI's for competing projects or other uses for the manufacturing space. If the 86 is discontinued, the BRZ may even get a slight bump in volume. I suggest we leave this topic alone until the next piece of information comes in. I know you'll never admit I'm right about this even when it happens..... Your turn.....

K-Tel Presents and As Seen On TV do not count as manufacturing companies.

Nobody has crowned me the "King" of anything except you. Not sure how or why this always has to come up in your arguments really.
You started a speculative thread but the attempt to insult the intelligence of every single person that tries to make a point or disagrees with you? To much acid in the 60s mess you up a bit?

[Shark_Bait88]

Originally Posted by rvoll

So you're familiar with Pahrump. Must be that chicken ranch place you visited there.... We'll see if you're right about the 86 continuing in the next year or so. Every piece of data we see shows it won't. But I'm sure you and @Tcoat, being kings of the forum, know a lot better. Working with an automotive supplier certainly makes you an expert on everything automotive, especially corporate strategy. My background is in corporate strategy, so we shall see who is right.... From a strategic perspective, this is an easy call. The only question I have is about the BRZ. I don't know the financials and have no idea about profit levels and breakeven calculations as well as relative Subaru corporate ROI's for competing projects or other uses for the manufacturing space. If the 86 is discontinued, the BRZ may even get a slight bump in volume. I suggest we leave this topic alone until the next piece of information comes in. I know you'll never admit I'm right about this even when it happens..... Your turn.....

How does this make total sense from a strategic perspective? Just because FR-S/86 sales have dropped in the past couple years? By that logic, Mazda should've stopped making the MX-5 in 2010 when NC sales had dropped drastically from what they'd been at. Or does this mean that IF they do come out with an RX-series success they should kill the Miata?

By your logic, why does Audi need an S3 when the S4 is less than $8k more?

Why does Ford have a Fiesta ST when there is a Focus ST/RS? (Before you argue that they're getting rid of those models, they will still exist in other markets)

Toyota has been saying it is their PRODUCT STRATEGY to go back to the 3-model sports car lineup they've been known for in the past. How does this not fit that? How does a sports car that presumably starts in the mid $30,000 range, if we are lucky, negate a different sports car, with different engineering/characteristics, that starts at $26,255?

Also, Subaru would never have made the BRZ if Toyota hadn't approached them about it. And I find it HIGHLY unlikely they'd continue making the BRZ on their own, especially without the big bucks funding coming in from Toyota. Let alone invest millions into R&D into an upgraded version to compete with the Supra. Do you really think Subaru can afford to compete with the joint power and funding of BMW and Toyota using an older chassis that Toyota helped them develop? And what about WRX/STI sales? A car like that would be placed squarely in the same range as an STI.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by gymratter

so this is the "official" document that everyone in the media is quoting. looks fake, and why is the 86 even mention on it... i'll just wait for the official press release from Toyota.

Maybe not fake but not what it has been represented to be.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88

How does this make total sense from a strategic perspective? Just because FR-S/86 sales have dropped in the past couple years? By that logic, Mazda should've stopped making the MX-5 in 2010 when NC sales had dropped drastically from what they'd been at. Or does this mean that IF they do come out with an RX-series success they should kill the Miata?

By your logic, why does Audi need an S3 when the S4 is less than $8k more?

Why does Ford have a Fiesta ST when there is a Focus ST/RS? (Before you argue that they're getting rid of those models, they will still exist in other markets)

Toyota has been saying it is their PRODUCT STRATEGY to go back to the 3-model sports car lineup they've been known for in the past. How does this not fit that? How does a sports car that presumably starts in the mid $30,000 range, if we are lucky, negate a different sports car, with different engineering/characteristics, that starts at $26,255?

Also, Subaru would never have made the BRZ if Toyota hadn't approached them about it. And I find it HIGHLY unlikely they'd continue making the BRZ on their own, especially without the big bucks funding coming in from Toyota. Let alone invest millions into R&D into an upgraded version to compete with the Supra. Do you really think Subaru can afford to compete with the joint power and funding of BMW and Toyota using an older chassis that Toyota helped them develop? And what about WRX/STI sales? A car like that would be placed squarely in the same range as an STI.

Wasting your breath I have had this debate with him before and he has no grasp of the concept that a car company will build a car at a loss to meet their strategic goals or that ROI does not always mean a cash profit. He sold insurance after all so know how companies work!

[Shark_Bait88]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Wasting your breath I have had this debate with him before and he has no grasp of the concept that a car company will build a car at a loss to meet their strategic goals or that ROI does not always mean a cash profit. He sold insurance after all so know how companies work!

You're right, there's no way I can compete. I can tell he's clearly a corporate strategy genius with far more knowledge than me from all the business man words he rattled off.

rvoll, I'm fully willing to admit you were right, if Toyota discontinues the 86 and says they did so because it didn't fit being placed below the Supra4 in their product strategy.

[Shark_Bait88]

Also, why the hell did they even make the Yaris GRMN?! That makes no sense when you consider rvoll's principles of business strategy!