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Old 03-05-2014, 03:34 PM   #99
1Cor10:23
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I'm getting taken to school on this thread.
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Old 03-05-2014, 03:37 PM   #100
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I'm getting taken to school on this thread.
I think everyone is learning a thing or two in this thread. Myself included. Definitely one of the best tech threads in recent memory.
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Old 03-05-2014, 03:39 PM   #101
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Definitely one of the best tech threads in recent memory.
@arghx7 drops knowledge in every thread he posts in, but I'm truly surprised by the others. Glad to know there are people like that in the community.
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Old 03-05-2014, 03:56 PM   #102
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I think everyone is learning a thing or two in this thread. Myself included. Definitely one of the best tech threads in recent memory.
Agreed. Great ideas and exchange of info on this thread without the "I'm going to protect my proprietary secrets" bull.
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Old 03-05-2014, 04:49 PM   #103
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Shiv, I see this on N.A. cars also but do you have a log say where you go wot at 2k rpm and pull throught that rise in intake advance? The car I was testing was N.A. and it had this problem stock, no mods. I'm sensitive the pump noise and could probably pick it up where others couldn't.

The thread is good as it's information we're all sharing with facts as sometimes these issues, since they won't apply to everyone, can be tricky to discuss on a forum.
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Old 03-05-2014, 05:18 PM   #104
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Shiv, I see this on N.A. cars also but do you have a log say where you go wot at 2k rpm and pull throught that rise in intake advance? The car I was testing was N.A. and it had this problem stock, no mods. I'm sensitive the pump noise and could probably pick it up where others couldn't.

The thread is good as it's information we're all sharing with facts as sometimes these issues, since they won't apply to everyone, can be tricky to discuss on a forum.
So log same tune but with WOT at 2000rpm instead of 2600rpm? We've been tuning DI engines since 2006 and I'm also pretty perceptive to HPFP issues (BMW N54s are kind of known for HPFP failure). But there has been absolutely nothing I've seen, logged or witnessed that shows HPFP limitations on this platform. Even with 5psi of boost thrown in.

Are all your logs with the Hydra standalone or do you have any with the stock ECU? Could what you are seeing be a result of the HPFP control logic used by the Hydra?

PS. Also, now that Enhanced Datalogging is released to the public, customers will be able to log all these new channels and provide more data.

Last edited by Shiv@Openflash; 03-05-2014 at 05:46 PM.
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Old 03-05-2014, 06:36 PM   #105
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Shiv,

I see the same thing in your logs as mine. I see your off throttle AFR (deceleration cut) but look as your request for direct injector pulse width ramps up, the DI pressure dips before it rises back up. I'm working from my mobile right now so I can't get specific with your data log right now.

In real time this all happens super fast and I would never hear suttle DI rattle on my car with an exhaust. Your test car for the record looks normal from what I've been seeing. On the boosted cars they usually have upgraded supply fuel pumps and they just rip so fast past this part its less of an issue (if there is no DI pump issue).

I should also note to people my log of the dip is on and e85 setup making 440 whp while the "problem" car was totally stock on pump gas. When I get my hands back on this car I'll update here so we can see if the oem replacement part is better (apparently there have been multiple revisions of the DI pump).

Do you know what units you're logging pressure in?

In terms of the Hydra's DI control you have more than enough control to hang yourself. LOL! Like arghx7 was explaining about the oem method where I first had to set a target and adjust the required duty to hit that particular target, and then do it for every pressure target, then tweak the spill valve response time, then tweak the phase trim, and then fine then the PID the rest so it all works during transitions and different rpm points etc. It all tracks perfectly.

Do you have the DI pump controls for Open Tablet?

Thanks.
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Old 03-05-2014, 08:03 PM   #106
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Phil, what parameters would you need logged from OFT to help look at this more? I can't guarantee showing an issue (I don't find the noise mine is making to be an issue, and I have an early build date car so probably the original DI pump revision), but I can get a log people can have a peek at.
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Old 03-05-2014, 08:39 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by wparsons View Post
Phil, what parameters would you need logged from OFT to help look at this more? I can't guarantee showing an issue (I don't find the noise mine is making to be an issue, and I have an early build date car so probably the original DI pump revision), but I can get a log people can have a peek at.
Thank you. I don't think its worth anyone logging unless they think they have the "marbles" or "ticking" sound because most people on here are just having normal intake noise. They guy that said "marbles," he should log the DI pressure in the RPM range he's hearing the noise and see if he has the pressure wave.
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Old 03-05-2014, 08:53 PM   #108
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Ok cool, I'm going to grab a log anyway just for fun, I'll make sure DI pressure is in there.
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Old 03-05-2014, 10:32 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
The people who design the software and controls blame the hardware if it doesn't meet targets ("this is a dumb design").

The people who design the hardware blame the software and calibration if it doesn't meet targets ("you're doing it wrong").

But you forgot one:

"Oh the hardware doesnt quite meet the spec? - That's OK they will fix it in software....."
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Old 03-05-2014, 10:49 PM   #110
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id like to thank everyone for participating in this thread.
For the noise in my clips will a standard ECUtek log show any usable information to post and what sepcifically would need to be logged?
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Old 03-06-2014, 01:11 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Element Tuning View Post
Shiv,

I see the same thing in your logs as mine. I see your off throttle AFR (deceleration cut) but look as your request for direct injector pulse width ramps up, the DI pressure dips before it rises back up. I'm working from my mobile right now so I can't get specific with your data log right now.

In real time this all happens super fast and I would never hear suttle DI rattle on my car with an exhaust. Your test car for the record looks normal from what I've been seeing. On the boosted cars they usually have upgraded supply fuel pumps and they just rip so fast past this part its less of an issue (if there is no DI pump issue).

I should also note to people my log of the dip is on and e85 setup making 440 whp while the "problem" car was totally stock on pump gas. When I get my hands back on this car I'll update here so we can see if the oem replacement part is better (apparently there have been multiple revisions of the DI pump).

Do you know what units you're logging pressure in?

In terms of the Hydra's DI control you have more than enough control to hang yourself. LOL! Like arghx7 was explaining about the oem method where I first had to set a target and adjust the required duty to hit that particular target, and then do it for every pressure target, then tweak the spill valve response time, then tweak the phase trim, and then fine then the PID the rest so it all works during transitions and different rpm points etc. It all tracks perfectly.

Do you have the DI pump controls for Open Tablet?

Thanks.
Fuel pressure channels (target and actual) are in MPa. Here is a WOT run from ~1800rpm:



Fuel pressure is pretty spot during the VVT intake advance change and everywhere else. This has been the case with the other cars I've data logged as well. Hopefully more customers can add their own data to this discussion.

Cheers
shiv
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Old 03-06-2014, 02:09 AM   #112
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Just went for a drive up some twisty mountain roads and thought I'd try out new Open flash tablet logging

lot of driving in 3000 to 5000 range where the "rasp" held it a few times at around 4000 and you can modulate the noise with accelerator pedal while engine revs pretty much the same.

does seem like intake noise/resonance (they have a lot of resonant chambers in standard intake which I still have most of them (perrin intake tube only , removed sound tube) standard filter box and snorkel.

does not seem to be any consistent loss of fuel pressure when you hold it around 4000-4500 where noise is. It a long log but can be zoomed. 1.5 vishnu tune.

http://datazap.me/u/steve99/mountain...7-8-9-10-11-12
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