Official: Toyota FT-1 Concept / First New Supra Prototype Spotted!

[abraxis]

Originally Posted by Silver Supra

Probably so, and that is a reason everyone should learn to drive stick, even if they don't like it or don't buy one!

I'll settle for people learning to check their tire pressure and tread depth. Heck, just learning to use their blinkers would put me over the moon.

[gymratter]

Originally Posted by Silver Supra

I do indeed. I have also driven a ton of stick shifts, off-track and on-track. I recommend everyone learn to drive a MT, not that everyone own one.
Own what you like.

but one should practice what they preach :p

[Silver Supra]

Originally Posted by gymratter

but one should practice what they preach :p

Originally Posted by Silver Supra

I do indeed. I have also driven a ton of stick shifts, off-track and on-track. I recommend everyone learn to drive a MT, not that everyone own one.
Own what you like.

Read much?

[gymratter]

Originally Posted by Silver Supra

Read much?

lol i didnt miss that part. it just find it hilarious that somone that drives an auto is telling others to learn stick. thats all

[vh_supra26]

Much better set of spy shots.

https://images.cdn.autocar.co.uk/sit...y/img_8793.jpg
https://images.cdn.autocar.co.uk/sit...y/img_8794.jpg
https://images.cdn.autocar.co.uk/sit...y/img_8760.jpg
https://images.cdn.autocar.co.uk/sit...y/img_8761.jpg
https://images.cdn.autocar.co.uk/sit...y/img_8763.jpg
https://images.cdn.autocar.co.uk/sit...y/img_8773.jpg
https://images.cdn.autocar.co.uk/sit...y/img_8774.jpg
https://images.cdn.autocar.co.uk/sit...y/img_8775.jpg
https://images.cdn.autocar.co.uk/sit...y/img_8776.jpg
https://images.cdn.autocar.co.uk/sit...y/img_8777.jpg
https://images.cdn.autocar.co.uk/sit...y/img_8778.jpg
https://images.cdn.autocar.co.uk/sit...y/img_8787.jpg
https://images.cdn.autocar.co.uk/sit...y/img_8788.jpg
https://images.cdn.autocar.co.uk/sit...y/img_8789.jpg
https://images.cdn.autocar.co.uk/sit...y/img_8795.jpg

http://www.supramkv.com/threads/prod...ook.636/page-4

[gymratter]

its starting to come together. just for fun i went over to supraforums to see what they are saying. oh boy they are now complaining how the taillights doesn't resemble/show any linkage to the MK4. seesh, cant make those guys happy lol.

[m.box.design]

Originally Posted by gymratter

its starting to come together. just for fun i went over to supraforums to see what they are saying. oh boy they are now complaining how the taillights doesn't resemble/show any linkage to the MK4. seesh, cant make those guys happy lol.

The hips and the rear definitely resemble that of the mk4. Little do they forget that the mk4 taillights do not resemble mk3 lights as well. I actually know a few older gents who prefer the look of the mk3 over the mk4.

[Silver Supra]

Originally Posted by gymratter

lol i didnt miss that part. it just find it hilarious that somone that drives an auto is telling others to learn stick. thats all

Don't know how old you are, but it will probably be a long time before you put as many miles on MT vehicles as I have! Shoot, if all these cars continue to drop MT versions, you may never make it!! Better keep the one you have!

Anyway, I tell people to stay healthy, too, even though.....oh, wait.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Because it's going to be a BMW Z5 with a Toyota badge on it.

Who's raving about the Z4 right now? Sure it's a solid roadster/gt car, in M trim with a good driver and setup it can embarrass 'better' cars, but it's been years since BMW lit the performance car world on fire and that's not going to change even with a cash infusion from Toyota for this chassis.

The best thing it's got going for it is the B48/B58 engine, for the I6 >400 hp/ft-lbs at the wheels with a tune will likely be the norm with a piggyback or tune. And the 4-banger is somewhere around mid 200's whp with ~300 ft-lbs tuned which should be more than enough to have fun even if they can't drop the weight below 3,200 lbs.

With a Toyota badge hopefully there will be a flock of tuning effort not usually spent on BMW engines/chassis, I'd be surprised if people weren't pulling a semi-reliable 600+ hp out of a fully modded B58 by the turn of the decade. But like the FA20, modern engines just aren't as overbuilt as they were in the past like the 2JZ.

The assumption is they will make it like the twins with the same engine, right? Do we know that for sure?

IS300, SC300 and GS300 all had the 2jz engine, just the 2jzge naturally aspirated version. The Supra had the 2jzge or 2jzgte variant. Supras always had multiple power levels. The Z5 might have a single engine size that is naturally aspirated. The Supra could have a significantly different power train. Maybe not as different as a GTR is to an R35/R37, but still a bump higher like larger turbos, more boost, stronger internals, etc.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

The assumption is they will make it like the twins with the same engine, right? Do we know that for sure?

IS300, SC300 and GS300 all had the 2jz engine, just the 2jzge naturally aspirated version. The Supra had the 2jzge or 2jzgte variant. Supras always had multiple power levels. The Z5 might have a single engine size that is naturally aspirated. The Supra could have a significantly different power train. Maybe not as different as a GTR is to an R35/R37, but still a bump higher like larger turbos, more boost, stronger internals, etc.

The assumption is that it's not financially prudent to have any more power train options than is necessary. Every noticeable variation is hundreds of thousands of not millions of dollars in cost to develop, test, certify, and build.

It will have a B48 and B58, it just makes sense based on past history of the Z3 and Z4 and their current strategy with their modular engine platform. Making a different chassis option to mount a Toyota powerplant would be very expensive for minimal benefit towards selling the cars, 90% of initial buyers of the Toyota Z5 won't know it has a BMW engine in it unless they accidentally open the hood or their salesman opens their mouth.

Good news is that odds are very high it'll have a straight 6. And by coincidence a 3.0L turbo I6 at that.

[vh_supra26]

The Mazda Miata and Fiat 124 uses different motor. Anything is possible, just wait for the official press release.

[gymratter]

Originally Posted by m.box.design

The hips and the rear definitely resemble that of the mk4. Little do they forget that the mk4 taillights do not resemble mk3 lights as well. I actually know a few older gents who prefer the look of the mk3 over the mk4.

agree, here is a chop someone made with the prototype's proportion.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

The assumption is that it's not financially prudent to have any more power train options than is necessary. Every noticeable variation is hundreds of thousands of not millions of dollars in cost to develop, test, certify, and build.

It will have a B48 and B58, it just makes sense based on past history of the Z3 and Z4 and their current strategy with their modular engine platform. Making a different chassis option to mount a Toyota powerplant would be very expensive for minimal benefit towards selling the cars, 90% of initial buyers of the Toyota Z5 won't know it has a BMW engine in it unless they accidentally open the hood or their salesman opens their mouth.

Good news is that odds are very high it'll have a straight 6. And by coincidence a 3.0L turbo I6 at that.

I disagree on the initial buyers of the Toyota being clueless. I disagree that any variation would not be worth the expense. Tell me, if the Subaru Brz and the Scion/Toyota FRS/86 was actually the BMW BRZ and the Toyota 86, same price, which would you buy? Same question, with the BMW Z5 and the Toyota Supra having the same body, same engine and same price, which would you buy? Which will these clueless buyers buy? I'm guessing they would want the BMW badge. Is Toyota planning to undercut the price of the Z5 to compete in sales, or will they price it the same and hope the Supra fan boys show up to buy?

Maybe this has been covered, but what is toyota bringing to the table? With the Brz/FRS it was body and D4S. If BMW does the engine then Toyota must be doing the body. The BRZ and FRS bodies complement the rest of the Subaru and Toyota lineup. BMW and Toyota are too different to share a similar body. The bumbers and headlights won't be the only exterior differences. At minimum this partnership will be more like the DSM cars, Eclipse n Talon, 3000GT n Stealth, with completely different bodies on the same shell n power train, but I don't think that will be enough for Toyota or the legacy of the Supra. The Z cars were expensive Miatas. The Supra was a GT car. I see a partnership but I'm thinking the two cars will have significantly more differences than the BRZ/FRS have.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I disagree on the initial buyers of the Toyota being clueless.

Well, best of luck then.

For the record I bought the FR-S because it was equipped how I wanted it, I'd have bought it with a Hyundai badge or a BMW badge or a Geely badge if it was exactly the same hardware and a similar price point.

People buy what they see on the lot, a staggering amount of people do that, even for niche cars.

The Z4 sold fewer units in 15 years than the 86 has in 5 years, the Z5/Supra will be lucky to move a thousand per month once the first two years pass and hype dies down. This thing will be just like the 86, they know it won't sell a ton and they'll develop it very carefully to maximize profit.

What do you consider the king of this type of car?
Porsche sold a grand total of 331 Caymans and Boxsters combined in July.
The Jaguar F-Type is currently what I would consider the best selling car in this Z5/Supra segment, it sold 235 units in July. Maybe you can make an argument that one of these other cars is more representative of how many GT cars are actually sold every month but nobody will know until it happens.

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/search/...?max-results=5

http://www.investopedia.com/articles...k-together.asp