4th gen ND Mazda MX-5 Miata

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Even on low speed tracks, RPMs are kept high. You know this right?

Of course, but since these aren't CVT equipped you will be spending time in the <6000rpm range after shifting, and there the Miata will catch up a little if it lags behind after 6000.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Of course, but since these aren't CVT equipped you will be spending time in the <6000rpm range after shifting, and there the Miata will catch up a little if it lags behind after 6000.

If you're hanging your hat on the brief moments this happens making up all of the other places an 86 is just flat out faster to make it faster than an 86 you could be in for a disappointment. The joys of bench racing . The new Miata is going to be a really fun car, but let's not get carried away.

[strat61caster]

@serialk11er
lol how many hundred of people have quoted your comparison to decades old engines and said 'omfg emissions and fuel economy are higher priorities now gtf over it'?

I think you're on with your assessment though, the Miata will have the nimbleness and grunt to keep up if not gain an advantage over the Toyobaru in the technical parts but the 86 will have the legs to pull away through the high speed bits.

@Daemono like fatoni posted on the previous page, comparing the MX5 to the 86 is like comparing the 86 to a 370z which is like comparing the 370z to a Mustang GT...

And don't forget the Miata will have an advantage under braking and mid corner speed due to the weight (assuming equal tires)

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

@serialk11er
lol how many hundred of people have quoted your comparison to decades old engines and said 'omfg emissions and fuel economy are higher priorities now gtf over it'?

I think you're on with your assessment though, the Miata will have the nimbleness and grunt to keep up if not gain an advantage over the Toyobaru in the technical parts but the 86 will have the legs to pull away through the high speed bits.

What do you mean decades old? The 4GR-FSE is still in use on the Lexus IS250. The 1.5L Skyactiv makes over 80hp/L. All I've ever said is that even if direct injection engines tend to be stronger in the midrange than high rpm, they generally end up with a bit more power anyways.

Like I said, I'm pretty much expecting the Miata to be underrated. 155hp is a joke, any manufacturer these days can make a 155hp 2L DI engine with a 6000rpm rev limiter. I wouldn't bet money just yet that it can actually beat the FRS in a drag race but I would be completely unsurprised if the Miata actually accelerated more quickly even at high rpm. What's for certain is that from 0 to 5500rpm the Miata is faster.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

...

My mistake, I misunderstood the intent of your comment.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

@Daemono like fatoni posted on the previous page, comparing the MX5 to the 86 is like comparing the 86 to a 370z which is like comparing the 370z to a Mustang GT...

And don't forget the Miata will have an advantage under braking and mid corner speed due to the weight (assuming equal tires)

I generally agree with @fatoni 's point. The mission of the new Miata has more to do with playfulness while the 86 is more of DD 2+2 modding platform with a classic feel. I forgot which journalist said it but I agree that the Miata feels more of a drivers toy whereas the FR-S feels more of a driver's tool. In any case, I was addressing @serialki11er 's contention that the new Miata will be faster than an 86 (which it won't ) the Fiat 124 however is another story. But really though, ultimate speed isn't the point of any of these cars. At least not stock.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

I was addressing @serialki11er 's contention that the new Miata will be faster than an 86 (which it won't ) the Fiat 124 however is another story. But really though, ultimate speed isn't the point of any of these cars. At least not stock.

Well that's the thing though, situationally the 86 can take on the "faster" cars, just like situationally the old MX-5 and likely the new MX-5 can give the 86 a run for it's money.



Going back to this roadtest long ago, the old NC was <2 seconds off the pace of the BRZ, if the ND is a hair faster than the NC it's knocking on the Toyobaru's door on a track that prioritizes aero and speed, something more handling focused could easily favor the MX-5. Not to mention AutoX.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...or_comparison/

[DAEMANO]

2 seconds isn't a marginal difference. With competent drivers it takes a lot of work to find 2 seconds. If it comes to pass that on any track head to head the new Miata is faster than an 86 stock, I'll eat crow pie. At the same time, I'd expect the same from you guys above.

[tahdizzle]

I honestly don't think that this miata will be any faster than the last miata.
It will perform just like any other Miata, but I really think that people assume it will be faster because it looks faster.
There is no real data to prove one way or the other.

Other than pure speculation, we have no real figures. Even supposed "First drive" reports are on the Euro version.

[swarb]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

2 seconds isn't a marginal difference. With competent drivers it takes a lot of work to find 2 seconds. If it comes to pass that on any track head to head the new Miata is faster than an 86 stock, I'll eat crow pie. At the same time, I'd expect the same from you guys above.

IMO, it all lies on what tires come on the miata.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by swarb

IMO, it all lies on what tires come on the miata.

Troo dat

[totopo]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

2 seconds isn't a marginal difference. With competent drivers it takes a lot of work to find 2 seconds. If it comes to pass that on any track head to head the new Miata is faster than an 86 stock, I'll eat crow pie. At the same time, I'd expect the same from you guys above.

Does autox count? I'm praying the new miata ends up in cs. Then I get to see all the qq on this forum. Karma for getting the 370 booted to bs

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by totopo

Does autox count? I'm praying the new miata ends up in cs. Then I get to see all the qq on this forum. Karma for getting the 370 booted to bs

Track not parking lot.

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

2 seconds isn't a marginal difference. With competent drivers it takes a lot of work to find 2 seconds. If it comes to pass that on any track head to head the new Miata is faster than an 86 stock, I'll eat crow pie. At the same time, I'd expect the same from you guys above.

Quoted for posterity.

I own a completely stock FRS. When the new Miata lands I should be able to find someone that will lend me theirs. I am a competent driver with easy access to multiple race tracks and this should be interesting.

Like DarkSunrise mentioned: Miata has better tq to weight and even though the 86 has better HP to weight, the Miata has lower weight.

I'm going to have to side with lightness on this one in my "early-interweb-prediction". HP makes you fast down the straight but lightness makes you fast everywhere. I categorize a track as: straight, brake zone, entry, apex, and exit. The FRS straight-line advantage, I predict, won't be enough to overcome the Miata braking, entry, apex and exit speed advantage.

Why do I think the Miata will have the upper hand in all those other categories?

-Less weight
-Superior front suspension design (aka dynamic camber).

As the owner of the FRS, I really hope I'm wrong because getting beat by a Miata never sits right with me.