Supercharger Comparison: Innovate, Jackson, Kraftwerks, Vortech *Updated March 9 2014

[mad_sb]

I think the rotrex based kits need some more fine tuning for the base maps.. Despite having the biggest gains in the meaty area of the power band, they also look the worst and i bet they would not feel very smooth the way the power oscillates.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by mad_sb

I think the rotrex based kits need some more fine tuning for the base maps.. Despite having the biggest gains in the meaty area of the power band, they also look the worst and i bet they would not feel very smooth the way the power oscillates.

Hit me up for a ride. What are you not liking about the powerband?

Jackson Racing:



Innovate:

[mad_sb]

Originally Posted by Robftss

Bolt and go canned tune JR and Innovate

Both have N/A base run to compare gains in %, not just outright numbers.

Both do well in different areas.

Don't forget those two dyno's are using different corrections, one it SAE the other is STD... If you ran the innovate car on the same dyno as the JR it would make about 220whp (would have done better if did not start to get knocky up top from the looks of the graph).

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by mad_sb

Don't forget those two dyno's are using different corrections, one it SAE the other is STD... If you ran the innovate car on the same dyno as the JR it would make about 220whp (would have done better if did not start to get knocky up top from the looks of the graph). This graph of the intercooled innovate also includes a baseline...

Correction only affects scaling, not the "bumpiness".

If you overlay the two graphs and scale them to make the baselines match, the Innovate makes a hair more power down low, while the Jackson Racing kills it up top.

[mad_sb]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Correction only affects scaling, not the "bumpiness".

Of Course, that why it's not called smoothing

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

If you overlay the two graphs and scale them to make the baselines match, the Innovate makes a hair more power down low, while the Jackson Racing kills it up top.

Indeed, both rotrex kits do... but they both need more fine tuning IMO to smooth out the power delivery..

I'm sure there is more to come from the rotrex camp...

Thanks for posting and thanks to whomever created the data comaparison!

[Robftss]

Originally Posted by mad_sb

Don't forget those two dyno's are using different corrections, one it SAE the other is STD... If you ran the innovate car on the same dyno as the JR it would make about 220whp (would have done better if did not start to get knocky up top from the looks of the graph).

I'm sure the base runs and the boosted runs used the same correction for each individual dyno test.

The interesting results are the gains (WTQ):

RPM__ Inn___ JR
@3K +10% +5%
@4K +43% +30%
@5K +25% +16%
@6K +28% +25%
@7K +23% +36%

Same gain occurs @ ~6500 rpm.

*did the best I could to plot off these configurations.

[brianhj]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Innovate Intercooled
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...65&postcount=1

"Standard 75mm pulley, stock exhaust and 91 octane fuel."

What about headers or other mods? That's pretty amazing.

[Ralph Spoilsport]

Let's talk air filters. I have to deal with a shit ton of sand in Winter/Spring, and we use so much on the roads that it never really goes away entirely. I consider K&N to be a non-starter. Is that what's shipping with JR and KW? What does Vortech use? I checked the KW and JR sites, no answers there (less interested in Vortech for other reasons).

Edit: Yeah, small detail, I know.

[PRORICAN]

Originally Posted by Ralph Spoilsport

Let's talk air filters. I have to deal with a shit ton of sand in Winter/Spring, and we use so much on the roads that it never really goes away entirely. I consider K&N to be a non-starter. Is that what's shipping with JR and KW? What does Vortech use? I checked the KW and JR sites, no answers there (less interested in Vortech for other reasons).

The filter it's probably the easiest and cheapest thing to change out on these kits. If you don't like the K&N then just replace it for whatever floats your boat. I wouldn't choose a kit because I like the filter.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Ralph Spoilsport

Let's talk air filters. I have to deal with a shit ton of sand in Winter/Spring, and we use so much on the roads that it never really goes away entirely. I consider K&N to be a non-starter. Is that what's shipping with JR and KW? What does Vortech use? I checked the KW and JR sites, no answers there (less interested in Vortech for other reasons).

The Jackson Racing kit uses a K&N. If it doesn't float your boat, it's super easy to swap on a filter of your choice, due to the location.

[shaunsweeney]

You just can't beating innovates tq curve. I couldn't care less about having a dyno queen. That thing would be a blast to drive everyday. The addition of the intercoolled seems to remedy the biggest issue with the base kit. I'm starting to lean this way over a turbo honestly.

I'm such a sucker for tq.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by shaunsweeney

You just can't beating innovates tq curve. I couldn't care less about having a dyno queen. That thing would be a blast to drive everyday. The addition of the intercoolled seems to remedy the biggest issue with the base kit. I'm starting to lean this way over a turbo honestly.

I'm such a sucker for tq.

I used to think like this, but that down low torque is good for what? When you're rowing through the gears you're not going to spend much time below 4K if you're shifting near redline - you spend 1st gear and maybe part of second in the under 4k RPM range if you shifted early. At the point where you're shifting at the top of the rev range, your next shift will bring you into the 4.5-5K range every time, thus the power and torque up-top becomes more important and with a significant enough difference actually outweigh the low end torque.

Okay so the 30-15 approximate torque the Innovate makes up to ~4.2K is definitely something you're going to feel in the seat of your pants, but you're going to feel something else when the other supercharged Twin starts walking you in 3rd or 4th; I'm saying I very much doubt the advantage of the torque down low anywhere outside of road racing where you may be in the <4K range on a frequent basis. From a roll in the wrong gear? Might be a disadvantage, but you're in the wrong gear bro.

[brianhj]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

I used to think like this, but that down low torque is good for what? When you're rowing through the gears you're not going to spend much time below 4K if you're shifting near redline - you spend 1st gear and maybe part of second in the under 4k RPM range if you shifted early. At the point where you're shifting at the top of the rev range, your next shift will bring you into the 4.5-5K range every time, thus the power and torque up-top becomes more important and with a significant enough difference actually outweigh the low end torque.

Okay so the 30-15 approximate torque the Innovate makes up to ~4.2K is definitely something you're going to feel in the seat of your pants, but you're going to feel something else when the other supercharged Twin starts walking you in 3rd or 4th; I'm saying I very much doubt the advantage of the torque down low anywhere outside of road racing where you may be in the <4K range on a frequent basis.

I'd probably enjoy the low end torque driving it as a daily driver. Stop lights, around corners, etc. I'm not racing it. Just having a little fun.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by brianhj

I'd probably enjoy the low end torque driving it as a daily driver. Stop lights, around corners, etc. I'm not racing it. Just having a little fun.

And that's where I spend most of my time too - but the nature of this engine is to rev and I do that anyway. See what I'm saying? If you shift at 3-4K yeah the Innovate might seem like a huge difference to you...and I DO shift at 3-4K when I'm just minding my own business, but all that lost top-end makes me sad. Shoot, on the highway in 6th I'm already almost at the point where the Innovate's advantage ends and if we talk about downshifting to 5th then the advantage is absolutely gone at freeway speeds. Lots of lower speed cornering and stuff, I could understand where the Innovate might be better. Look at this way: 50hp on side of the line versus 30 to 15ish on the other side.

I just don't see the low-end gain *possible* on the Innovate as an equal trade off for the power you're losing on the top-end in my opinion. The area under the graph wtq chart reflects this too.