TMG & DRT race car project

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by omran

thanks for the info.. ok then seems like the EcuTek wins! will go for it.

regarding the diffuser,, i know that the APR rear diffuser cover is is purely cosmetic, but i thought that the Password JDM Dry Carbon Fiber Rear Diffuser is not? its made to be a proper rear diffuser but not sure ,...

i have ordered also the FT-86 SF - Street Performance Front Splitter with its upgrade, but when i received it, i saw it very very heavy. I'm not sure if this would help though. i read good reviews here about it but I'm still reluctant to fit it.

Nope, neither of those are real diffusers. What you want is the FT86SpeedFactory one (or something custom that is similar):

http://www.ft86speedfactory.com/ft-8...l#.VdNF2pf76jk

Both the ones you've listed are purely cosmetic.

Originally Posted by omran

i have bought the UEL headers unfortunately as i need the mid range power (i hope I'm not mistaken!)

for this, i got complete Tomei UEL Header, Tomei Overpipe, Tomei Ti Test Pipe & Tomei Ti Type-60R exhaust to make it a full brand set. is this good enough?

A good 4-2-1 EL will give just as much midrange bump (look at the nameless or ACE 4-2-1). You'll definitely want 3" piping the whole way back too.

I really wouldn't want to run a race car on a UEL header, the very different runner lengths could lead to different EGT's on the two heads, and can also change how much each back scavenges compared to the other (could change AFR).

[Icanfaptothis86]

Originally Posted by wparsons

Nope, neither of those are real diffusers. What you want is the FT86SpeedFactory one (or something custom that is similar):

http://www.ft86speedfactory.com/ft-8...l#.VdNF2pf76jk

Both the ones you've listed are purely cosmetic.



A good 4-2-1 EL will give just as much midrange bump (look at the nameless or ACE 4-2-1). You'll definitely want 3" piping the whole way back too.

I really wouldn't want to run a race car on a UEL header, the very different runner lengths could lead to different EGT's on the two heads, and can also change how much each back scavenges compared to the other (could change AFR).

So much this

[ATL BRZ]

Originally Posted by Icanfaptothis86

is grimmspeed the best intake for power gains ?

The FAclub 20 looked like the best design overall just eyeballing all the options

Air mass is key. A 3 inch CAI will provide the most gains after rescaling the MAF table and tuning. Perrin makes one.

If you'd prefer not to remove the bumper to clean the filter then the TRD intake would be the best as it provides the most airbox volume.

Grimmspeed is very good, but not the best for a race application IMO.

Originally Posted by wparsons

Nope, neither of those are real diffusers. What you want is the FT86SpeedFactory one (or something custom that is similar):

http://www.ft86speedfactory.com/ft-8...l#.VdNF2pf76jk

Both the ones you've listed are purely cosmetic.

+1 for Velox Motorsports Diffuser. Nothing else on the market makes as much downforce.

Originally Posted by omran

TMG brake cooling duct system

Do you have any pictures of the cooling ducts from inside the wheel wells?

TMG refuses to sell these to anyone but their actual race car customers....

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ATL BRZ

Air mass is key. A 3 inch CAI will provide the most gains after rescaling the MAF table and tuning. Perrin makes one.

ftfy

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by wparsons

A good 4-2-1 EL will give just as much midrange bump (look at the nameless or ACE 4-2-1). You'll definitely want 3" piping the whole way back too.

I really wouldn't want to run a race car on a UEL header, the very different runner lengths could lead to different EGT's on the two heads, and can also change how much each back scavenges compared to the other (could change AFR).

exactly, makes you wonder if the uneven stress on the engine could be held responsible for the cylinder 4th failures, burning coil packs ..etc and why so many people had issues with their USDM EJ engines specifically STIs (been coming with UEL header from factory) and hundreds of pages of about the failures on the cylinder 4th surprisingly it's not an issue with JDM STIs or race cars which all came with EL headers

yes the "boxer sound", the "rumble" .. but it's also known as "sound of inefficiency"

[ATL BRZ]

Originally Posted by wparsons

A good 4-2-1 EL will give just as much midrange bump (look at the nameless or ACE 4-2-1). You'll definitely want 3" piping the whole way back too.

I really wouldn't want to run a race car on a UEL header, the very different runner lengths could lead to different EGT's on the two heads, and can also change how much each back scavenges compared to the other (could change AFR).

Originally Posted by glamcem

exactly, makes you wonder if the uneven stress on the engine could be held responsible for the cylinder 4th failures, burning coil packs ..etc and why so many people had issues with their USDM EJ engines specifically STIs (been coming with UEL header from factory) and hundreds of pages of about the failures on the cylinder 4th surprisingly it's not an issue with JDM STIs or race cars which all came with EL headers

yes the "boxer sound", the "rumble" .. but it's also known as "sound of inefficiency"

meh

UEL makes great power N/A with E85



and boosted with a C30-94 Rotrex with E85





UEL sounds amazing and performs flawlessly on track/race cars including my own, @phastafrican 's , @The Slow One 's and @smbstyle 's cars which are all tracked heavily.

No doubt the ACE 4-2-1 EL will outperform everything, but the majority of EL headers are on par with the quality UELs based on the dynos I've observed.


Coil packs fail on both types of headers including stock. It's irrelevant. The coils cant take the heat and perform at high rpms for a long time. It's a well documented issue.

[wparsons]

Not knocking your car Ian, but the ACE made a couple whp less on California 91, with you on e85. It would easily add 15-20whp to your setup, if not more!

[ATL BRZ]

Originally Posted by wparsons

Not knocking your car Ian, but the ACE made a couple whp less on California 91, with you on e85. It would easily add 15-20whp to your setup, if not more!

Doubt it. Not without more compression. Maybe +3 to 5whp as-is. Not worth it

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by ATL BRZ

meh

UEL makes great power N/A with E85



UEL sounds amazing and performs flawlessly on track/race cars including my own,

No doubt the ACE 4-2-1 EL will outperform everything, but the majority of EL headers are on par with the quality UELs based on the dynos I've observed.


Coil packs fail on both types of headers including stock. It's irrelevant. The coils cant take the heat and perform at high rpms for a long time. It's a well documented issue.

Oh I agree with you, it does do a better job filling the torque dip on NA car but it doesn't look like the ideal solution for NA Boxer engines (even many boosted ones) , like you said it's well documented.. I would suggest you to go read NASIOC and IWSTI forums regarding the headers... I owned two STIs and about 5-6 Subaru cars so I am not new to the topic

I believe Porsche and Subaru/Toyota has their own reasons to pick EL over the UEL , and I trust their judgment more than the "Billy's header shop" in Texas


Haven't you already gone through a few coil packs yourself? Have you ever considered EL as an option since with the FI torque dip is not an issue and EL header yields more gains

[ATL BRZ]

Originally Posted by glamcem

Haven't you already gone through a few coil packs yourself? Have you ever considered EL as an option since with the FI torque dip is not an issue and EL header yields more gains

Yes I've lost two coils on the passengers side. I've considered EL but I don't like the sound. At the end of the day UEL is my preference and nothing more. The difference in power is not significant enough for me to consider the other option. I prefer UEL turbo kits on these cars too. Call me crazy

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by ATL BRZ

Yes I've lost two coils on the passengers side. I've considered EL but I don't like the sound. At the end of the day UEL is my preference and nothing more. The difference in power is not significant enough for me to consider the other option. I prefer UEL turbo kits on these cars too. Call me crazy

you're crazy (j/k) sound is really subjective I think some prefer UEL over EL or vice versa... with that said TBH I always liked my old STIs sound (with headerback exhaust)

in my case, I know that I won't be getting much by going with an aftermarket header due to FI and I would much rather running an OEM header but I have to do it only because of the material :/ Thanks to Subaru for giving us a middle finger on that department (just like the lack of the more powerful option)

not considering FI yet?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by wparsons

Not knocking your car Ian, but the ACE made a couple whp less on California 91, with you on e85. It would easily add 15-20whp to your setup, if not more!

E85 gains are lesser on the Ace header, due to the header itself being more efficient.

E85's big advantage is that it allows for the majority of the inefficiencies of many headers to be masked. E85 is proven to add a solid 35whp to an otherwise stock car with tune, but on the Ace, it's worth 12-15whp at best, NA.

The primary issue is that during the exhaust stroke, the FA20 has difficulty pushing out the exhaust gas. No header will allow for 100% evacuation, but a higher flowing header will allow for more evacuation of the cylinder. If you pull more exhaust gas out of the cylinder, then less is remaining, when the exhaust valve closes, and the next intake stroke begins. This means the intake charge is cooler, allowing for more aggressive timing.

Now, E85 evaporates exceptionally well, and when it atomizes and evaporates, it absorbs heat out of the intake charge, which, allows for more timing.

At some point, adding more ignition advance timing doesn't yield more torque. This is MBT. On most headers, you cannot be anywhere CLOSE to MBT, but the addition of E85 allows you to get there.

The Ace is already at MBT, so the gains of E85 are minimal. As an aside, Hondas are know for exceptionally well flowing heads and headers. The K20 and F2xC engines also gain 10-15whp at best, with an E85 tune.

The primary reason for the Ace being able to flow better, is scavenging. The runner lengths are calculated to overlap at specific intervals. The exhaust gas pulse traveling out of one cylinder will overlap with the exhaust stroke of another, which adds a "suction" effect (Bernoulli), which allows for more evacuation of the other cylinder. For the pulses to overlap with that specificity, it turns out that the runners need to be long. Very long. Hence, the design.

Now, when you add FI to the mix, the Ace header's benefits get multiplied... its almost scary.



Ghetto, totally unscientific overlay of the Ace torque graph vs Ian's dyno. Ignore the "torque dip". This is a phantom dip that results from cam timing not keeping up with quick dynp ramp times. Altering the ramp time alters where the dip is, and is not exhibited on actual road testing.

Solid Green = Ace header + front pipe + CA 91
Dotted blue = Ace header, stock front pipe + CA 91

[wparsons]

You're hitting MBT on California 91 with the ACE header?? That's beyond impressive!

[philooo]

great I have just bought a JDL UEL, not I need to get an ACE 4-2-1 ... stop the madness