What coilovers should I purchase?

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Cole

And that's not even with big boy baller wheels. Those are wheels that cost less than 1k

I was about to say new RPF1's 17x9 are less than $1k, but CAD...

[Cole]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I was about to say new RPF1's 17x9 are less than $1k, but CAD...

Those run between 1500 (maybe 1400, but haven't looked in a while) and 1900ish depending on finish.

[Shark_Bait88]

Originally Posted by Gforce

I was not aware that available coilovers were significantly smaller overall diameter than stock. That surprises me given that the stock springs and dampers are technically coilovers, just fixed height spring perches.

Stock suspension uses 90mm springs and perches. Most aftermarket coilovers use 60mm springs and perches, or at least a smaller diameter perch with a beehive style 90mm spring. That 30mm difference is huge when it comes to wheel fitment, particularly with wider wheels/tires and camber dialed in.

If you weren't aware of that, then it's clear that you haven't really done much research and certainly don't have the experience to be offering advice on the sort of topics you are.

None of us are trying to have egos, we just hate seeing misinformation being spread so adamantly by someone who clearly doesn't fully understand what they're talking about. People come here seeking knowledgeable advice, and they already get enough conflicting messages from people who actually know what they're talking about. Adding in poorly informed/inexperienced inputs and it's going to make this all a lot more daunting.

Have some humility, realize that you've got a lot to learn (we all do really, but some more than others), and start reading more and talking less.

[Gforce]

Enough with the suggestions for my own personal improvement.

I have pointed out and remain of the opinion that wider or bigger wheels are not better for this car.

I have cited decisions made by the factory, who you will have to admit know exactly how to modify their own cars and have done so. Subaru/Toyota fit 18x7.5 optional wheels in some markets. They fit 225/40x18 tires to those wheels. Is nobody wondering how they decided to do that?

I cited a real world test by road and track who found that the stock sized tire on a stock diameter wheel was quicker than the larger tire on the wider wheel.

So many posters on this forum actually know very little about what they are talking about and think that by attacking someone personally, or using juvenile insults that they are correct. Well, newsflash, most of you are completely wrong and do not understand what you're doing, why you're doing it or why it has the effect on your cars that it does.

I, on the other hand, am posting from decades of experience about modifications I researched thoroughly and implemented one by one so I know for sure what effect each modification achieved.

In the result I have modified my car to be just about perfect for very fast road driving year round in all weather.

It is no coincidence in my opinion that the 2017 factory car is very like my car, but without the Supercharger.

Now if anyone has some facts to establish that anything the factory and I have done wrong, fire away.

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88

Stock suspension uses 90mm springs and perches. Most aftermarket coilovers use 60mm springs and perches, or at least a smaller diameter perch with a beehive style 90mm spring. That 30mm difference is huge when it comes to wheel fitment, particularly with wider wheels/tires and camber dialed in.

If you weren't aware of that, then it's clear that you haven't really done much research and certainly don't have the experience to be offering advice on the sort of topics you are.

None of us are trying to have egos, we just hate seeing misinformation being spread so adamantly by someone who clearly doesn't fully understand what they're talking about. People come here seeking knowledgeable advice, and they already get enough conflicting messages from people who actually know what they're talking about. Adding in poorly informed/inexperienced inputs and it's going to make this all a lot more daunting.

Have some humility, realize that you've got a lot to learn (we all do really, but some more than others), and start reading more and talking less.

You just proved my points nicely, thanks.

So, the most compact coilovers make 15 mm more room for wider wheels and tires with more camber, if I understand the point being made. That's just over 1/2 inch of additional clearance to the suspension so fitted.

Just how wide a wheel will that fit and at what camber setting?

I should warn you, these are trick questions you may be wise not to answer.

[Stang70Fastback]

Alright. I'll bite.

Originally Posted by Gforce

Enough with the suggestions for my own personal improvement.

As long as you continue giving uninformed suggestions to others, you will continue to be told to either learn what you're talking about, or stop talking.

Originally Posted by Gforce

I have pointed out and remain of the opinion that wider or bigger wheels are not better for this car.

Your opinion is invalid if you don't know what you're talking about, which you've already demonstrated to be the case.

Originally Posted by Gforce

I have cited decisions made by the factory, who you will have to admit know exactly how to modify their own cars and have done so. Subaru/Toyota fit 18x7.5 optional wheels in some markets. They fit 225/40x18 tires to those wheels. Is nobody wondering how they decided to do that?

You cannot use OEM as a benchmark for ultimate performance on a budget sports car. The fact that you even think this is a reasonable argument suggests a complete lack of understanding not only of your car, but of the development process that OEMs go through. OEMs exist to make money. They make money by selling cars that people want to buy. They do NOT sell money by making the ULTIMATE version of anything unless they are a company called Koenigsegg, or McLaren, etc... in which case they make money by charging $2482398493423 for each car.

Your BRZ is a CHEAP sports car. There is not a single part on your car that cannot be improved upon. There is a reason why my massive 18x9 wheels weigh less than the factory 17x7 wheels. There is a reason why my 4-piston Big Brake Kit weighs 10 lb less than the tiny factory brakes. Literally everything on the BRZ is designed with cost in mind. It is all a compromise.

To claim that your car is "as good as it gets" because it is similar to OEM is completely silly. It's like claiming that your homemade apple pie is "as good as it gets" because it's similar to the generic supermarket version that they sell for $2. Your statement makes literally NO sense.

Originally Posted by Gforce

I cited a real world test by road and track who found that the stock sized tire on a stock diameter wheel was quicker than the larger tire on the wider wheel.

There are different scenarios which will net you different results. Did you know that if you're taking your BRZ to the drag strip, you will get better times if you fit super-skinny, super light 100-section width front tires? It's true. Because you don't need lots of front end grip in a straight line.

Likewise, on some tracks, with higher speed portions, a wider tire might not be beneficial because the added drag at higher speeds won't be made up for with higher ultimate cornering speeds.

In autocross, a 245 section tire WILL be faster than a 215 section tire. FACT. If it wasn't, then you wouldn't have LITERALLY EVERYONE in STX running a 245 tire.

Originally Posted by Gforce

So many posters on this forum actually know very little about what they are talking about and think that by attacking someone personally, or using juvenile insults that they are correct. Well, newsflash, most of you are completely wrong and do not understand what you're doing, why you're doing it or why it has the effect on your cars that it does.

I think you've made it very clear that you know less than we do.

Originally Posted by Gforce

I, on the other hand, am posting from decades of experience about modifications I researched thoroughly and implemented one by one so I know for sure what effect each modification achieved.

Cool, but please refer to my previous statement.

Originally Posted by Gforce

In the result I have modified my car to be just about perfect for very fast road driving year round in all weather.

It is no coincidence in my opinion that the 2017 factory car is very like my car, but without the Supercharger.

Congratulations! You've modified your car to be... the same as the factory car? Why even do the modifications, then? Hey, maybe you're happy with what you get from the factory car... which is fine, as it's a great car. However, the factory car is the "all season tire" of BRZs. It's a great starting point, but it can definitely be improved upon when you focus it for a specific task. It can even be improved upon if you don't focus on a specific task, with more expensive parts that the OEM couldn't afford to equip it with.

Originally Posted by Gforce

Now if anyone has some facts to establish that anything the factory and I have done wrong, fire away.

The factory didn't do anything "wrong." They built the best car they could to meet the price point they needed to meet, which would please the most people, and survive in all parts of the planet where it would be sold.

I compete in STX autocross. If Subaru was building the car to be the best it could be in STX, then they fucked up. Some people (strangely) drag race their BRZs, and if Subaru was building the car to be the best that it could be at that, then they fucked up. Other people heavily track their cars. If Subaru was building a hardcore track machine, then they fucked up.

But they didn't fuck up, because they needed to make it affordable, and capable of doing a little bit of everything. They did that. They built the $2 store-brand apple pie. It's our job to make it as tasty as Aunt Gretchin's secret recipe pie.

[KnightRyderx2]

[strat61caster]

@Stang70Fastback if you really wanna have fun tell him your alignment specs.

[Cole]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

@Stang70Fastback if you really wanna have fun tell him your alignment specs.

Stock is best, idiot.

[Shark_Bait88]

Originally Posted by Cole

Stock is best, idiot.

No, no, no. You need to go positive camber, because "positive" means better!

[D_Thissen]

The misinformation that gets spewed on this forum is ridiculous. OEM is not always perfect. The 86 chassis is built on a budget. If the market would support this car costing 40k, the car would cost 40k. Fact is, it wont and Subaru/Toyota had to make sacrifices in order to get it at a price point that would actually sell.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by Gforce

Well, newsflash, most of you are completely wrong and do not understand what you're doing, why you're doing it or why it has the effect on your cars that it does.

I, on the other hand, am posting from decades of experience about modifications I researched thoroughly and implemented one by one so I know for sure what effect each modification achieved.

Part of why people get upset with you is things like this. The "you're all idiots, only me and Subaru are doing it right" thing. No one likes that and it is not true. There is some crap on here, but there also some very intelligent people who race and win. Or people who just build really nice fun street cars (which isn't always easy either).

I agree with some of your suggestions. I disagree with some of your suggestions. I don't think you're an idiot (maybe a little stubborn like most people).

Having a reasonable discussion shouldn't be this hard. Just say that you like your car set up with X instead of Y. Maybe you tried Y and it didn't fit your needs. Try to keep in mind your preferences and situation are not exactly the same as everyone else's.

And if a person gets 1 thing wrong it doesn't necessarily invalidate everything they've ever said. But if literally everyone is telling you to rethink something, it might be time to at least listen and consider the alternative.

I'm still learning things all the time about building suspensions (and communicating with people). Some of things I've seen in the last 2 years would have blown me away 10 years ago. Anyone want to see a shock dyno of the Ohlins on a FIA GT3 championship winning racecar? Guarantee you'll be scratching your heads. That might be for another thread though.

Anyway, I try to stay out of bitchfests as much as possible. So I'm going to go drink a beer and play outside. Have fun everyone!

- Andrew

[Cole]

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88

No, no, no. You need to go positive camber, because "positive" means better!

Is that because the positive camber will make the tires "pinch" the road and make it impossible to lose traction?

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

Anyone want to see a shock dyno of the Ohlins on a FIA GT3 championship winning racecar? Guarantee you'll be scratching your heads. That might be for another thread though.

Yes you tease.