How bad is turbo without intercooler? - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

mid_life_crisis · 06-19-2013, 10:07 AM

First off, I know that you get less power without an intercooler and why.
My question is, if you want to keep the installation simple and clean and don't need stupid amounts of power but just want to wake the car up more than basic bolt-ons and a tune will do, would running without an intercooler work okay?
In the early days of turbocharging, intercoolers were pretty much unheard of, so turbos can be run safely without them. The question is: how much boost are you likely to be limited to and what kind of power could you reliably make?

Foobar · 06-19-2013, 10:15 AM

The actual power loss is going to depend on a lot of variables that differ from kit to kit.

Here's an interesting read: http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...lers_worth_it/

nonicname · 06-19-2013, 10:38 AM

I totally agree with you on this idea. I could see even vortech SC just pluging right to the intake without IC.
I believe 5psi is the max recommended to run on your car without IC there are some toyota pick trucks that run like this in other countries.
Smart for two turbo kit also run like this.

ft_sjo · 06-19-2013, 10:43 AM

It's bad. Like crossing the streams.

mid_life_crisis · 06-19-2013, 10:44 AM

Interesting article, thank you.
It appears that for people running mild boost levels, an intercooler is superfluous.
Budget installation is getting easier on the budget all the time.

nonicname · 06-19-2013, 10:50 AM

I forgot to say I ran my Jetta without an intercooler for years!
it was also an ebay kit. I come from one of those 3rd world countries where stuff is done ghetto style.

no IC or tunning baby! lol

Sportsguy83 · 06-19-2013, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nonicname

I forgot to say I ran my Jetta without an intercooler for years!
it was also an ebay kit. I come from one of those 3rd world countries where stuff is done ghetto style.

no IC or tunning baby! lol

What country is that?

Whitigir · 06-19-2013, 11:21 AM

How bad ? Very Bad.

1/ Turbo Works by using the Wasted Exhaust Hot Air to spin the Wheel, which is connected to the Turbine by the Shaft, which then turn the Turbine wheel, which will suck air in for you.

2/ Compressed air, or anything compressed will be Heated up, together with the Hot Air from the other side which heat it up faster = Recipe for Pre-ignition or Knocks....

3/ Your engine goes BOOM! in time

NotSoJDM · 06-19-2013, 11:36 AM

Although reliability comes into play here, chemical intercooling is always an option. You can set up meth injection with a water/meth mix to combat higher iats associated with forced induction.

Downsides are potential system failures (pump malfunction, line break, nozzle clog, etc) and the fact that its now a consumable that has to be refilled.

Whitigir · 06-19-2013, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotSoJDM

Although reliability comes into play here, chemical intercooling is always an option. You can set up meth injection with a water/meth mix to combat higher iats associated with forced induction.

Downsides are potential system failures (pump malfunction, line break, nozzle clog, etc) and the fact that its now a consumable that has to be refilled.

I would like to add one of the important downside of Meth too...it is Corrosive....

jamesm · 06-19-2013, 12:25 PM

You can do it, you just have to keep the boost down, maybe 5-6psi? At boost goes up, so do intake temps, and as intake temps go up you lose power and increase the risk of detonation. you'd be limited by not having one, but it would work.

rusty959 · 06-19-2013, 01:00 PM

Don't forget, those engines with no intercooler aren't running 12.5 cr. We don't have as much room to play with. I'm not going to tell you it shouldn't be done, but I personally don't think its worth the extra risk.

nonicname · 06-19-2013, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whitigir

How bad ? Very Bad.

1/ Turbo Works by using the Wasted Exhaust Hot Air to spin the Wheel, which is connected to the Turbine by the Shaft, which then turn the Turbine wheel, which will suck air in for you.

2/ Compressed air, or anything compressed will be Heated up, together with the Hot Air from the other side which heat it up faster = Recipe for Pre-ignition or Knocks....

3/ Your engine goes BOOM! in time

Toyota uses non intercooled turbo engines outside the US. I couldn't believe it when I saw it. I actually beileve it was a diesel engine though so I'm not sure if that makes a big difference.

mid_life_crisis · 06-19-2013, 01:16 PM

Yeah, 12.5 is a little steep for a turbo application to begin with. Food for thought, that is.

Next consideration is that with the boost limited to about 5 and the correlating lesser hp gains, are the stock injectors now sufficient to handle the load?

06-19-2013, 10:07 AM	#1
mid_life_crisis Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Drives: FR-S 10 #103 AT Location: NC Posts: 1,519 Thanks: 101 Thanked 599 Times in 347 Posts Mentioned: 5 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	How bad is turbo without intercooler? First off, I know that you get less power without an intercooler and why. My question is, if you want to keep the installation simple and clean and don't need stupid amounts of power but just want to wake the car up more than basic bolt-ons and a tune will do, would running without an intercooler work okay? In the early days of turbocharging, intercoolers were pretty much unheard of, so turbos can be run safely without them. The question is: how much boost are you likely to be limited to and what kind of power could you reliably make? __________________ Necessity may be the mother of Invention but Desperation is quite often the father. “Sex is like Bridge. If you don't have a good partner, you'd better have a good hand.” - Mae West Papa said, "son there's a lot of evil temptations out there. Best to try 'em all so you know which ones to avoid."

06-19-2013, 10:44 AM	#5
mid_life_crisis Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Drives: FR-S 10 #103 AT Location: NC Posts: 1,519 Thanks: 101 Thanked 599 Times in 347 Posts Mentioned: 5 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Interesting article, thank you. It appears that for people running mild boost levels, an intercooler is superfluous. Budget installation is getting easier on the budget all the time. __________________ Necessity may be the mother of Invention but Desperation is quite often the father. “Sex is like Bridge. If you don't have a good partner, you'd better have a good hand.” - Mae West Papa said, "son there's a lot of evil temptations out there. Best to try 'em all so you know which ones to avoid."

06-19-2013, 11:21 AM	#8
Whitigir Banned Join Date: Aug 2012 Drives: 450 awhp twin turbo vr4 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,012 Thanks: 94 Thanked 273 Times in 177 Posts Mentioned: 2 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	How bad ? Very Bad. 1/ Turbo Works by using the Wasted Exhaust Hot Air to spin the Wheel, which is connected to the Turbine by the Shaft, which then turn the Turbine wheel, which will suck air in for you. 2/ Compressed air, or anything compressed will be Heated up, together with the Hot Air from the other side which heat it up faster = Recipe for Pre-ignition or Knocks.... 3/ Your engine goes BOOM! in time Last edited by Whitigir; 06-19-2013 at 12:20 PM.

06-19-2013, 01:00 PM	#12
rusty959 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Drives: DGM BRZ limited Location: Indiana Posts: 366 Thanks: 98 Thanked 145 Times in 95 Posts Mentioned: 7 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Don't forget, those engines with no intercooler aren't running 12.5 cr. We don't have as much room to play with. I'm not going to tell you it shouldn't be done, but I personally don't think its worth the extra risk. __________________

06-19-2013, 01:16 PM	#14
mid_life_crisis Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Drives: FR-S 10 #103 AT Location: NC Posts: 1,519 Thanks: 101 Thanked 599 Times in 347 Posts Mentioned: 5 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Yeah, 12.5 is a little steep for a turbo application to begin with. Food for thought, that is. Next consideration is that with the boost limited to about 5 and the correlating lesser hp gains, are the stock injectors now sufficient to handle the load? __________________ Necessity may be the mother of Invention but Desperation is quite often the father. “Sex is like Bridge. If you don't have a good partner, you'd better have a good hand.” - Mae West Papa said, "son there's a lot of evil temptations out there. Best to try 'em all so you know which ones to avoid."

06-19-2013, 10:38 AM	#3
nonicname Banned Join Date: Nov 2012 Drives: it has 4 wheels and a motor Location: Planet Earth Posts: 479 Thanks: 69 Thanked 173 Times in 93 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I totally agree with you on this idea. I could see even vortech SC just pluging right to the intake without IC. I believe 5psi is the max recommended to run on your car without IC there are some toyota pick trucks that run like this in other countries. Smart for two turbo kit also run like this.

06-19-2013, 10:43 AM	#4
ft_sjo Banned Join Date: Oct 2012 Drives: GT86 Location: The Motherland Posts: 1,398 Thanks: 140 Thanked 473 Times in 271 Posts Mentioned: 22 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	It's bad. Like crossing the streams.

06-19-2013, 10:50 AM	#6
nonicname Banned Join Date: Nov 2012 Drives: it has 4 wheels and a motor Location: Planet Earth Posts: 479 Thanks: 69 Thanked 173 Times in 93 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I forgot to say I ran my Jetta without an intercooler for years! it was also an ebay kit. I come from one of those 3rd world countries where stuff is done ghetto style. no IC or tunning baby! lol

06-19-2013, 12:25 PM	#11
jamesm Banned Join Date: Mar 2013 Drives: 2013 FR-S Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 2,929 Thanks: 1,166 Thanked 2,293 Times in 1,180 Posts Mentioned: 313 Post(s) Tagged: 4 Thread(s)	You can do it, you just have to keep the boost down, maybe 5-6psi? At boost goes up, so do intake temps, and as intake temps go up you lose power and increase the risk of detonation. you'd be limited by not having one, but it would work.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
91 MR2 Turbo with KO Racing GT35R for sale/trade for FR-S turbo kit	Unleashed	Cars for Sale/Trade	8	02-20-2013 06:26 PM
Turbo Tuesday 12/4/2012 (Dynamic Turbo Miami)	F3dzo	Southeast	46	12-06-2012 01:49 PM
Another turbo with but water to air intercooler	ahaghshenas	Forced Induction	8	09-24-2012 02:22 AM
Using Subarus other turbo Boxers as an idea, how much HP could a turbo BRZ/FR-S have?	HitTheGas	BRZ First-Gen (2012+) -- General Topics	12	02-21-2012 01:24 PM
Geneva Preview: Techart to debut 911 Turbo, Turbo S	vh_supra26	Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions	1	02-22-2010 06:20 PM

User Name		Remember Me?
Password