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Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain.


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Old 03-23-2014, 09:56 PM   #3991
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Originally Posted by tennisfreak View Post
So I am wondering if maybe JDL EL w/cat + Nameless OP/FP w/resonator + Perrin unresonated would be tolerable.

From what your saying it looks like Nameless or any other non catted header may be too raspy unless I get a resonator for my Perrin catback.
I'm doing your exact hypothesized setup, except that my OP/FP will also be catted and my Perrin catback will be resonated. Installing the first week of April. Dyno tuned on the 19th. I will probably get a video up on YouTube some point soon.

@QFry that sounds badass!
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Old 03-23-2014, 10:19 PM   #3992
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The dark ceramic is just not reflecting as much light from outside. It has no effect on the conducted heat from inside the pipe. Darker colours mean less energy is being emitted.
Black objects absorb and emit more heat all else being equal. The question is weather or not the specific coating used more than compensates for this. At least that is what my physics and thermo classes said. At any rate I'm going to use one of those little laser temp gauges to measure the surface temp of my header and some nearby objects under the hood and I welcome anyone with a black coated header to do the same.
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Old 03-23-2014, 10:38 PM   #3993
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Black objects absorb and emit more heat all else being equal. The question is weather or not the specific coating used more than compensates for this. At least that is what my physics and thermo classes said. At any rate I'm going to use one of those little laser temp gauges to measure the surface temp of my header and some nearby objects under the hood and I welcome anyone with a black coated header to do the same.
I can only imagine that being the case for radiation type heat, rather than conducted or convection (whatever the physical vibration transfer type is called) type. The amount of under hood radiation onto the header is pretty much irrelevant, whereas the insulation properties of ceramic from hot gas conducting through the header is way more important.
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Old 03-23-2014, 11:13 PM   #3994
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Well I think we will agree to disagree. I'm gonna get some measurements.

If the aluminum content of the coating is low enough then hopefully coated headers are cooler than uncoated. If my hunch is right they are actually hotter because this coating is for raising the temp of the header to improve flow. There are two reasons to coat stuff. To keep radiant temps down or to raise the operating temp of the item.

The insulation coatings are generally silver. The other are generally a flat/semi gloss black.
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Old 03-23-2014, 11:48 PM   #3995
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Well I think we will agree to disagree. I'm gonna get some measurements.

If the aluminum content of the coating is low enough then hopefully coated headers are cooler than uncoated. If my hunch is right they are actually hotter because this coating is for raising the temp of the header to improve flow. There are two reasons to coat stuff. To keep radiant temps down or to raise the operating temp of the item.

The insulation coatings are generally silver. The other are generally a flat/semi gloss black.
So which are you comparing? The coating types, or coated vs uncoated? I've heard something to the opposite, that the 'chrome' ceramic coatings are inferior to the black or white coatings, because the aluminum content that makes them silver transfers more heat through than the higher ceramic content coatings.

What you are saying doesn't really make sense, though. If a coating is keeping the inside gases hotter, it is because it is preventing heat loss from radiating, isn't it? ie less heat under hood.


On another note, I would only coat high quality headers like Nameless or JDL due to the increased temp. These guys both use high quality tubing (I know it's Rathgibson, made in America in Nameless' case) and fully back purge their welds. These are critical for longevity of high temp coated exhaust components.

On questionable Chinese '304-ish stainless stell' (sic) with oxidised burn-through at the joints, the higher temp gases from the coating can rapidly deteriorate the welds from the inside leading to cracks.
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Old 03-24-2014, 12:58 AM   #3996
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So which are you comparing? The coating types, or coated vs uncoated? I've heard something to the opposite, that the 'chrome' ceramic coatings are inferior to the black or white coatings, because the aluminum content that makes them silver transfers more heat through than the higher ceramic content coatings.

What you are saying doesn't really make sense, though. If a coating is keeping the inside gases hotter, it is because it is preventing heat loss from radiating, isn't it? ie less heat under hood.


On another note, I would only coat high quality headers like Nameless or JDL due to the increased temp. These guys both use high quality tubing (I know it's Rathgibson, made in America in Nameless' case) and fully back purge their welds. These are critical for longevity of high temp coated exhaust components.

On questionable Chinese '304-ish stainless stell' (sic) with oxidised burn-through at the joints, the higher temp gases from the coating can rapidly deteriorate the welds from the inside leading to cracks.
I have an uncoated nameless header. I am getting temp readings tomorrow. Why don't we just see what the results are? I'm just curious to see. I don't know one way or another which type of coating is being used. I'm also not even remotely interested in a debate. I just want data. Are the coated headers running hotter than the non coated headers? That is all I want to know.
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Old 03-24-2014, 01:25 AM   #3997
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I just installed mine today, found that by removing the oil dipstick the header went in a whole lot more easily. I did have to torque the flanges down to 30ft-lbs in order to get them to seat (all except for the passenger side upper nut, had to hand tighten that with a box wrench). My 2.5" OP/FP is really close to the head, but not touching.

Sounds great, a little raspy, but that happens pretty much every time you remove a cat.
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Old 03-24-2014, 08:46 AM   #3998
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Got to test this thing out today. Made the car so much funner to drive. The power boost is exactly where I needed it. Lovin this header. Best money spent!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEy0VRvfmEM"]Slava @ PPIR Practice Day 3/23/14 - YouTube[/ame]

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Old 03-24-2014, 09:10 AM   #3999
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that is some bigass parking lot.
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Old 03-24-2014, 09:28 AM   #4000
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that is some bigass parking lot.
Is that building where the final boss resides? (Nice drift)

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Old 03-24-2014, 10:06 AM   #4001
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Was the butt dyno able to feel a noticeable gain by adding the header?
It definitely feels a considerably stronger than my Borla UEL.
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Old 03-24-2014, 12:42 PM   #4002
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Well using a raytek mt6 mini temp laser thermometer I measured all over the header from the runners to the collector and after an hour of driving and 10 min at idle with the hood closed I'm seeing temps from 190-240F at various places with the header surfaces closest to the intake sitting at 190-210 F. This is an uncoated nameless header. I also checked temps on the surrounding surfaces and didn't find any surface above 200F with the underside of intake bits sitting below 180F

So after sitting at idle for 10 min those are the temps I measured on an uncoated header.

Now if someone with a coated header would like to do the same that would be great and give folks an idea of what the coating is doing in terms of radiant heat.
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Old 03-24-2014, 01:01 PM   #4003
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Well using a raytek mt6 mini temp laser thermometer I measured all over the header from the runners to the collector and after an hour of driving and 10 min at idle with the hood closed I'm seeing temps from 190-240F at various places with the header surfaces closest to the intake sitting at 190-210 F. This is an uncoated nameless header. I also checked temps on the surrounding surfaces and didn't find any surface above 200F with the underside of intake bits sitting below 180F

So after sitting at idle for 10 min those are the temps I measured on an uncoated header.

Now if someone with a coated header would like to do the same that would be great and give folks an idea of what the coating is doing in terms of radiant heat.
what would really be beneficial is if you could get someone without a header to get the same measurements to get a baseline.
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Old 03-24-2014, 01:46 PM   #4004
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what would really be beneficial is if you could get someone without a header to get the same measurements to get a baseline.
Having both would be ideal. I don't think anyone will be surprised if this header is a bit of a heater compared to stock. What would be surprising is if the coated headers were worse for under hood temps than the uncoated which is my suspicion. I would rather be wrong on this, but that is my concern.

Also on the stock header configuration the header is much much further away from any components that concern people.
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