Official: Toyota FT-1 Concept / First New Supra Prototype Spotted!

[krayzie]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0sAgxe9G4Y[/ame]

[funwheeldrive]

I'm just glad Toyota is offering something enjoyable to drive at this price point. I'm always down for more lightweight RWD Japanese sports cars regardless of transmission options.

[HKz]

Originally Posted by krayzie

The A90 being supposedly the Toyota sports flagship means they have something to prove against the likes of the R35 GTR and such, and needs to chase after numbers being late to the game. The GTR wasn't 6 figures when it first came out. The Toyota brand has to communicate "value" as they have Lexus when it comes to high price.

well they haven't benchmarked a R35 or NSX in any of their public tests, and the recent announcement infers torque will be at most 400 with most rumors having HP around 350....on paper I'm not sure how the Supra would be able to prove anything with them. The R35 was underpriced when it came out, not the fairest thing to compare with

[gymratter]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OYYZlopRpA[/ame]

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by HKz

well they haven't benchmarked a R35 or NSX in any of their public tests, and the recent announcement infers torque will be at most 400 with most rumors having HP around 350....on paper I'm not sure how the Supra would be able to prove anything with them. The R35 was underpriced when it came out, not the fairest thing to compare with

Well Nissan/Renault made their fortunes selling high volume cheap cars so they priced their R35 the way they did initially cuz they could afford to. For Toyota being the largest in the world even more so in terms of pricing without being a loss leader (think very efficient R&D process which has lower cost).

Why the R35 and new NSX are priced the way they are now imo is because they want their target customers to take them more seriously.

Toyota didn't benchmark these two cars probably because neither of them is lightweight and "fun to drive". To the Japanese "balanced" means every aspect of the car working in synergy and not just focusing solely on one thing like engine output numbers and then compensate with the rest, as that would ruin the overall handling.

To me these days Nissan is a French car maker and Honda is American.

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by SuperTom

You also forgot that manuals are lighter (important on this car with the weight up front)
Easier to repair (usually only need a new clutch,TOB,Flywheel)
Less complicated, cheaper to repair

In the 50 plus cars I've owned over the years, I've never had to repair an automatic but have replaced a bunch of clutches....

In regard to weight, some experts here should weigh in but with other sports cars I've owned, if you add the MT and clutch together including pedal assembly/linkage and shift linkage, it came pretty close to the weight of a modern automatic. Years ago, there was a big difference, but not today.

[HKz]

Originally Posted by krayzie

Toyota didn't benchmark these two cars probably because neither of them is lightweight and "fun to drive". To the Japanese "balanced" means every aspect of the car working in synergy and not just focusing solely on one thing like engine output numbers and then compensate with the rest, as that would ruin the overall handling.

I get that, but then it goes back to the original question of why isn't the manual a guarantee here if "fun to drive"/chassis sitffness/CoG are once again their goals with this Supra?

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by drew_kar

Lol this car is going to be a monster guys. The engine isn't some off the shelf unit. Yes it will be twice the price of an 86, but it'll have twice the horsepower with minimal weight penalty. I have faith in Toyota on this one, they know how to make a fun car.

Huh? This engine is basically off the shelf.

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by HKz

I get that, but then it goes back to the original question of why isn't the manual a guarantee here if "fun to drive"/chassis sitffness/CoG are once again their goals with this Supra?

This begs the question of what is "fun to drive"? Society is changing. People like the automation of smartphones -- they don't want to use a dial phone anymore, or even a flip phone without a touch screen. Today's cars have more stuff going on with phones, messaging, music. Cities are getting more crowded so driving a stick in stop and go traffic is not fun. While this is going on, automatics are getting more advanced with more speeds than manuals, quicker shifting, extra modes like sport, eco, and launch. Automatics get better mileage so you have fewer trips to the gas station. As cars get more hp, you don't need a stick to go really fast. As you go faster than ever before, it is more important to focus on the road than on shifting. If the 86 had 600 hp, your enjoyment would be going really fast and not necessarily shifting.

I get it. You are more connected with the car and the road with a manual and stiffer suspension. But "fun to drive" is more than just shifting and being uncomfortable in your seat. Times are changing and so is the definition of "fun to drive". If you look at the future, as car designers do, then you can certainly have a really fun to drive car with an automatic.

[BRX]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Huh? This engine is basically off the shelf.

Even if it was identical to a B58, it has been confirmed to have an iron/CGI block. So no, it's not off shelf.

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[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by BRX

Even if it was identical to a B58, it has been confirmed to have an iron/CGI block. So no, it's not off shelf.

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What? No way. There's no way they can afford the weight of an iron block. BMW hasn't made one in 10 years, 3 engine generations ago.

I'm being this thing will have an aluminum block with steel sleeves, like all the other BMW motors.

[drew_kar]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Huh? This engine is basically off the shelf.

The MKVSupra forums have pointed in a different direction. The block has been rumored to be an iron block varient of the B series engine with a custom toyota (read: Yamaha engineers) head. It's been mentioned numerous times in the forum, however, largely unknown to the public. I guess we will see for sure with the release of the car !

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[BRX]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

What? No way. There's no way they can afford the weight of an iron block. BMW hasn't made one in 10 years, 3 engine generations ago.

I'm being this thing will have an aluminum block with steel sleeves, like all the other BMW motors.

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/mkv...uestions.1341/

Is the motor an off-the-shelf BMW unit?
We currently have no concrete evidence for or against this.

Current Speculation:
As far as the information we have gathered, no. This is a newly developed motor that is being co-developed by Toyota and BMW. Current info says that it is loosely based off B58 architecture, but using cast iron (CGI) for the block in order to achieve high strength levels. Additionally, the head is all-new for this motor. This information, however, has not been confirmed.

I stand corrected, it has not been confirmed but probably very likely.

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[gymratter]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Huh? This engine is basically off the shelf.

Moto said it’s a new motor.