*PHASTEK* Perrin Tuned Vortech Supercharger Install Thread (3 Vehicles, 3 Kits)

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by chadstyle

I can't believe all this discussion over MPG when adding a SC or TC kit...REALLY??? Who cares about the MPG at that point??? If we were talking 911's here, would anyone even mention MPG? No, because people that have the money to mod cars like that don't care if it drinks gas at that point. I think its a much younger crowd on here and with that comes less experience, knowledge, and I hate to say it...MONEY.

The only numbers I care about after going FI are HP, TQ, 0-60...performance, not economy.

It matters to some people, even people with money. I'm not poor by any means, but it's still an important metric when buying (or upgrading) a car. It can be one of the largest parts of a cars 'real' cost, depending how much you drive and what the prices are at the time. I can afford the gas, sure, but I'd rather not pay for it. 'People with money' usually try to hold on to it when possible. That's how they got that way in the first place .

[chadstyle]

Originally Posted by jamesm

It matters to some people, even people with money. I'm not poor by any means, but it's still an important metric when buying (or upgrading) a car. It can be one of the largest parts of a cars 'real' cost, depending how much you drive and what the prices are at the time. I can afford the gas, sure, but I'd rather not pay for it. 'People with money' usually try to hold on to it when possible. That's how they got that way in the first place .

You clearly are missing the point...

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by chadstyle

You clearly are missing the point...

clearly. back to the topic at hand..

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by Jeff86

Stay out of boost and you get stock mileage. Boosting adds air which of course requires more fuel. The WAY you drive your boosted car has everything to do with your mileage, and that's pretty much going to differ from driver to driver.

Not quite.

Superchargers will consume more fuel than a turbo in light throttle conditions the same way a AC consumes more fuel. It is connected to the crank and must be spun. It consumes power, thus fuel.

The difference in mpg may be as small as 2 mpg. Just depends on the system. 2 mpg to Toyota or Subaru for example is HUGE for their marketing strategy. The majority of their customers do care about mpg especially in this day and age. It is a selling point. They can also inch out a few more ponies out of a turbo at the same boost level vs. a s/c. Hence the use of turbos and not superchargers. Its all sales and marketing.

[Jeff86]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

Not quite.

Superchargers will consume more fuel than a turbo in light throttle conditions the same way a AC consumes more fuel. It is connected to the crank and must be spun. It consumes power, thus fuel.

The difference in mpg may be as small as 2 mpg. Just depends on the system.

You're talking about parasitic drag. It is negligible. I've had two roots blowers on two different 4 cylinder cars and out of boost mileage was not affected. Centrifugals create considerably less parasitic drag than a roots blower. It's a non-issue.

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by Jeff86

You're talking about parasitic drag. It is negligible. I've had two roots blowers on two different 4 cylinder cars and out of boost mileage was not affected. Centrifugals create considerably less parasitic drag than a roots blower. It's a non-issue.

"Superchargers do affect gas mileage slightly. The bypass is a good step, but it doesn't completely compensate for the fact that you're spinning a mechanism around. We usually see about a 1-2 mpg drop in fuel efficiency with supercharged Miatas and a 1-2 mpg gain with the turbos."


http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/for...s/36262/page1/

"The parasitic drag of turning a supercharger can exceed 25 hp at high rpm and probably is no worse than an AC compressor [3-4 HP] at idle or cruise in top gear.

Each HP consumes ~~ 1/2 pound of extra gasoline per hour.
An extra 1/3rd of a gallon per hour added to the base 2.5 gallons per hour during 60 mph cruise.

Miles per gallon is harder to calculate than pounds of gasoline per hour since the ecu deals in mass flow per time unit.

Air flow is calculated in grams per second as is fuel flow.

Having a supercharger drag on the engine will usually decrease normal MPG by 8 -13% just like running AC on a HOT DAY.

Why many oem superchargers have a clutch to disengage supercharger until needed. Radial superchargers use less HP than Axial versions......function of impellar weight and gear multiplication and oil frictional losses.

Without a clutch the oem would be forced to publish a 2 MPG hit in highway MPG on EPA test so the fines [gas guzzler] must be weighted against cost of clutch and warranty on clutch."

http://forums.nicoclub.com/mpg-with-...r-t315640.html

[Sportsguy83]

Good God... Can we stop the pointless discussion and get back on topic? Both SC and TC affect mileage when you get on boost. If one uses more or less gas.. who cares???

The decision to shell out 5K+ dollars on a kit is not based on MPG, you can assume MPG will take a dump as soon as you FI and if anything be surprised that it is not that bad. Never expect it to be good and move on.

[norsamerican]

@Sportsguy83 This thread is and others similiar are all full of off topic banter, can we get some on topic moderation? Im sick of seeing menial and trivial banter and bickering over shit that has nothing to do with the thread. Holy Raptor Jeezus its annoying! Feel free to delete this post after reading it also. Its the same 8-10 people doing this crap all over this forum.
People if you have an off topic post CREATE A NEW THREAD! OR USE PM's thats what they are for.

/rant

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

Good God... Can we stop the pointless discussion and get back on topic? Both SC and TC affect mileage when you get on boost. If one uses more or less gas.. who cares???

The decision to shell out 5K+ dollars on a kit is not based on MPG, you can assume MPG will take a dump as soon as you FI and if anything be surprised that it is not that bad. Never expect it to be good and move on.

My last sports car got 19-21 mpg average daily driving. I'm in tall cotton with this car (even with FI).

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by norsamerican

@Sportsguy83 This thread is and others similiar are all full of off topic banter, can we get some on topic moderation? Im sick of seeing menial and trivial banter and bickering over shit that has nothing to do with the thread. Holy Raptor Jeezus its annoying! Feel free to delete this post after reading it also. Its the same 8-10 people doing this crap all over this forum.
People if you have an off topic post CREATE A NEW THREAD! OR USE PM's thats what they are for.

/rant

Well, a little bit off topic is fine, its bound to happen by human nature. BUT agree with you anything more than that and its too much.

Unfortunately, I am only regional moderator, so I have no say or participation of what happens in Technical Forums. I just try to help a little bit from the outside.

[Brian@Vortech]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

My last sports car got 19-21 mpg average daily driving. I'm in tall cotton with this car (even with FI).

"In Tall cotton" - (from Urban Dictionary) Wealthy, well off, well to do.

I had to look that one up. Learned my new thing for the day.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by norsamerican

@Sportsguy83 This thread is and others similiar are all full of off topic banter, can we get some on topic moderation? Im sick of seeing menial and trivial banter and bickering over shit that has nothing to do with the thread. Holy Raptor Jeezus its annoying! Feel free to delete this post after reading it also. Its the same 8-10 people doing this crap all over this forum.
People if you have an off topic post CREATE A NEW THREAD! OR USE PM's thats what they are for.

/rant

Have a muffin?

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by Brian@Vortech

"In Tall cotton" - (from Urban Dictionary) Wealthy, well off, well to do.

I had to look that one up. Learned my new thing for the day.

It is also:

to be doing very well; successful.

[AZFA20]

Originally Posted by Chris@Phastek

All three units installed back on the vehicles. Easy for those who didn't convert back to NA (45 min a pop?).

I'll be enjoying driving the car so I might not post for a bit :-). We're sponsoring an event in Sealy, so I should be able to put it on the drag strip for numbers.

Any idea if and when you guys may get the triplets back on the dyno with the new compressors installed? All I know is that I am excited to see more results with the update