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Old 02-10-2015, 12:56 AM   #1
geezer86
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3S-GE BEAMS swap

I'm the Geezer and I'm a swapaholic.
There is a guy on the MR2 site doing a 3S-GE swap from an Altezza with 6 speed. their web site www.dynosty.com He is quite a long way along with it and it is what I wished Toyota had done with the 86.
They are using a very expensive Haltech ECU.
I have a question for the electro geeks.
Why couldn't the BRZ ECU control the BEAMS engine?
Dual VVt , fly by wire, 4 cylinders, 86x86 2.0, battery backed injectors and so on. I have read that the Suby ECU can be flashed to not use the DI injectors at all.
Tell me why it wont work.
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Old 02-10-2015, 01:12 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geezer86 View Post
I'm the Geezer and I'm a swapaholic.
There is a guy on the MR2 site doing a 3S-GE swap from an Altezza with 6 speed. their web site www.dynosty.com He is quite a long way along with it and it is what I wished Toyota had done with the 86.
They are using a very expensive Haltech ECU.
I have a question for the electro geeks.
Why couldn't the BRZ ECU control the BEAMS engine?
Dual VVt , fly by wire, 4 cylinders, 86x86 2.0, battery backed injectors and so on. I have read that the Suby ECU can be flashed to not use the DI injectors at all.
Tell me why it wont work.
I know it is a brilliant motor but is it THAT much better than the FA20 to be worth the blood, sweat, tears and money? Those concerns aside the big things that jump to mind about the ECU is whether the sensors are compatable. Also would it fit below the hood line?
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Old 02-10-2015, 01:42 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geezer86 View Post
I'm the Geezer and I'm a swapaholic.
There is a guy on the MR2 site doing a 3S-GE swap from an Altezza with 6 speed. their web site www.dynosty.com He is quite a long way along with it and it is what I wished Toyota had done with the 86.
They are using a very expensive Haltech ECU.
I have a question for the electro geeks.
Why couldn't the BRZ ECU control the BEAMS engine?
Dual VVt , fly by wire, 4 cylinders, 86x86 2.0, battery backed injectors and so on. I have read that the Suby ECU can be flashed to not use the DI injectors at all.
Tell me why it wont work.
You read my mind. The first thing I thought of when I bought my FRS was... "why couldn't they have put the 3sge in here!"

It would make life A LOT easier if this badboy was to grace our engine bay


But for real, this engine is a dinosaur with all that iron. It would've been much better if they went with a longitudinal mounted 2zzge and displaced it to 2 liters for this car. Then again, how exactly would this car handle without a flat boxer engine (the 6 million dollar question)? Kind of the reason why the boxer was the selling point of this car. Low C.O.G. Still though, I wish Toyota should've shoved an inline 4 in the engine bay as far back as possible and cut out Subaru entirely.
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Old 02-10-2015, 01:22 PM   #4
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It's a Toyota thing

Yeah I know the 3S is old timey but the 4th Gen is fairly advanced.
I doubt the COG would move up all that much, I think I could live with it.
It looks like it fits under the hood in the Dynosity swap as does the larger trans.
Being a 4AG fan I was watching the development of the 86 with baited breath.
And then they pull the rug out. A wha? A Subaru? A truly WTF moment for AE86 fans.
So now there's a F'n Subaru in the driveway where there should be a GT86 not a Scion.
But I digress, I suppose I'll just have to get the new Lexus and spare myself the swap abuse. But I am a repeat swap offender and will likely find myself back in swap prison by next fall.
Some pics of my 4AG AE86 drive train MGB GT I also Have a Porsche VW/914 with 4AG power.

Last edited by geezer86; 10-27-2015 at 09:54 PM.
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Old 02-10-2015, 01:33 PM   #5
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I was also hoping that the FT-86 would use a 3S variant or something to rival a F22C when I first heard about it. You could just use the factory 3S ECU to control the engine and leave the FA20 ECU in to control the body. All in all, it probably wouldn't be worth it though.
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Old 02-10-2015, 04:06 PM   #6
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yes why bother

Yes I'll most likely talk myself out of it but a complete 3S and trans only runs $1500 ish.
I see a Lexus on my horizon.


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Originally Posted by projek_01 View Post
I was also hoping that the FT-86 would use a 3S variant or something to rival a F22C when I first heard about it. You could just use the factory 3S ECU to control the engine and leave the FA20 ECU in to control the body. All in all, it probably wouldn't be worth it though.
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Old 02-10-2015, 10:52 PM   #7
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Was going to post up some details once its finished being turbo'd, has been running around NA for a while now, all my pictures are on my work cpu, but feel free to check me out on instagram: dustinatdynosty #FR3S #dustinsnewproject

We will be selling swap kits once we have everything finalized.
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Old 02-10-2015, 10:58 PM   #8
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3sge beams is a tall motor, even when swapped into ae86s they need mods to clear the hood.

Its a good engine but it really needs a light chassis to be good (like an ae86). I owned an Altezza and it wasn't fast (slowest car I have ever owned).
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Old 02-10-2015, 11:00 PM   #9
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once its turbo'd i think it will do just fine, and when built, will do even better
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Old 02-11-2015, 01:19 AM   #10
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Where is this BEAMS frs you guys speak of? I would love to see pics of it.

I will admit, the thought of a BEAMS swap did cross my mind a bunch of times if my FA20 were to ever take a shit.

Now that you guys have a spilled the beans on a swap kit coming, I am all the more interested.

EDIT:

Nevermind... Found them here.
http://instagram.com/dustinatdynosty/



Good God! I gotta say, the 3SGE looks very belonging in there. Any details on wiring?
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Old 02-11-2015, 10:49 AM   #11
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This is a side project I have been working on at the house and pretty happy with how things are going. I have been an mr2 fanatic for years and after 10 or so I finally parted ways with my 95 last year. I always wanted to play with a red top BEAMS and turbo it but never got around to it so when I picked up the FRS that was my first thought was to drop a black top BEAMS in and turbo it. We played with the FA20 for a while but I never was happy with the car having a boxer engine... no offense to those that love it, we still work, build, tune the FA20 but for my personal car it was time to do what I wanted to do. Put the heart of a Toyota back in it... even if its heavier, taller, whatever other negative anyone wants to throw at it.

For the wiring on this initial setup I took the FA20 engine wiring harness and completely dissassembled it and cut the wire to fit the BEAMS motor, repinned and re heat shrunk everything. So the BEAMS engine harness now connects to the FA20 chassis through the AC1 connector, then at the ECU I have a patch harness that I have pulled all of the signals needed to run the engine while keeping the stock CPU happy. Still working on a few little odds and ends but the car drives around great and can't wait to do some testing on the dyno in turbo form.

The haltech on the car is the more expensive 2500 series as that was the only model available when i was working on the wiring but the 1500 series which is the 4cyl version of the 2500 will be the one that we will be offering in a swap package. This is able to retain factory drive by wire functions which offers a cleaner install solution. Currently we welded a flange on the stock BEAMS intake manifold that allows the stock FA20 throttle to be bolted in place but will offer the swap with either a flange for the stock TB or will offer an aftermarket manifold with plug and play Tundra 5.7 throttle body. I haven't had time to play with ITBs but that will also be an option.
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Old 02-11-2015, 01:10 PM   #12
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See...........told ya. So who needs a low mile FA20? :-)
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Old 02-11-2015, 01:46 PM   #13
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How strong are the stock internals, will they really hold up to enough more power over an FA20 to justify the swap?

Even if the engine is cheap, you'll need an upgraded turbo to make bigger power which would be roughly the same cost as a turbo kit for the FA20.

I would bet that a built FA20 block will cost less than the rest of the swap parts.

If it's being done for the fun of it, then sure, but if it's being done just for power output there are far more efficient ways to get power.
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Old 02-11-2015, 02:25 PM   #14
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How strong are the stock internals, will they really hold up to enough more power over an FA20 to justify the swap?

Even if the engine is cheap, you'll need an upgraded turbo to make bigger power which would be roughly the same cost as a turbo kit for the FA20.

I would bet that a built FA20 block will cost less than the rest of the swap parts.

If it's being done for the fun of it, then sure, but if it's being done just for power output there are far more efficient ways to get power.
- stock for stock is a good question, I haven't decided if I want to try and push it in stock form to see where it pops but from a block standpoint, a solid deck block will 100% out hold the power of a subaru open deck block.

- they do not come stock turbo, so its about the same cost to turbocharge either motor

- I haven't added it up yet to confirm, but no i believe the swap will cost less then what it would cost for an individual to to pay a shop to build an FA20 block.

- mine was 100% for the fun, but you are in the swap forum, so everyone in here could most likely make power in a way other than a swap but they are choosing to swap instead.
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