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FR-S / BRZ vs.... Area to discuss the FR-S/BRZ against its competitors [NO STREET RACING]


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Old 07-21-2016, 07:30 PM   #29
velvetx
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Originally Posted by mike2100 View Post
That's a retractable hard top. Not rollover rated. Looks good though. After I posted I started wondering about the possibility of adding a rollbar to something like that. Or getting the soft top and adding a rollbar and hardtop.
Honestly reminds me of the RX-7. The car itself with the hardtop looks pretty damn sweet. If I end up getting a new job I might splurge and have the 2017 BRZ I just ordered and a Miata hardtop.
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Old 07-22-2016, 09:33 AM   #30
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As much as I like the NDRF my gripe with it is that it has basically no added roll over protection. So it would still need to be modded for you to enjoy it on the track if you do race it. If you don't the issue is that it's really not that different from a soft top. Don't let the picture fool you, it's a very thin piece of plastic that's the entire roof. It's like a retractable hard top cover. Great idea and I'm sure it will catch on, but from what I've seen in person it may disappoint some.

Even so I'm considering one, but I love the new 86
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DAEMANO (10-19-2016)
Old 07-25-2016, 01:56 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by strat61caster View Post
After watching them understeer all day long at autocrosses... Nah.


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Originally Posted by TylerLieberman View Post
But at the end of the day, it's a jack of all traits, master of none scenario

... find a single car that does all of those things almost as well, as well, or better than the STI, and you find that a lot of those cars on that list go out the window. Right now, the Golf R and Focus RS are the only vehicles that really compete.
This was along my reasoning for saying that.

It's the best over all at being a car of the three.
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Old 08-16-2016, 12:40 PM   #32
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But at the end of the day, it's a jack of all traits, master of none scenario.
jack of all trades*
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TylerLieberman (08-16-2016)
Old 08-16-2016, 02:51 PM   #33
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jack of all trades*
You mean what I know...

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Old 10-18-2016, 11:54 PM   #34
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Surprised that OP found the twins to be sharper in handling than the ND Miata - I have had a few drives in both lately, 17 BRZ and 86, and the Club edition Miata with the Bilstein shocks, LSD, and the Sport package forged BBS wheels and Brembos. Handling was sharp on the BRZ, but the car felt heavier and less lively than the ND - you really do notice those extra 400 or so pounds. That Club was like a cat on its toes just itching to dance, really amazing, urging you to give it more go. (Drove a 124 Abarth today as well, not so impressed with its softer suspension tuning.)

So fun factor win to the Miata by a good margin. But the Club was noise central top-up on the highway, suspension was a bit harsher than the twins, and it would struggle stowing a week's groceries. Plus it will cost about $8k more here in Canada. Tradeoffs....
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Old 10-19-2016, 10:42 AM   #35
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Surprised that OP found the twins to be sharper in handling than the ND Miata - I have had a few drives in both lately, 17 BRZ and 86, and the Club edition Miata with the Bilstein shocks, LSD, and the Sport package forged BBS wheels and Brembos. Handling was sharp on the BRZ, but the car felt heavier and less lively than the ND - you really do notice those extra 400 or so pounds. That Club was like a cat on its toes just itching to dance, really amazing, urging you to give it more go. (Drove a 124 Abarth today as well, not so impressed with its softer suspension tuning.)

So fun factor win to the Miata by a good margin. But the Club was noise central top-up on the highway, suspension was a bit harsher than the twins, and it would struggle stowing a week's groceries. Plus it will cost about $8k more here in Canada. Tradeoffs....
That sounds about right if you're comparing the BRZ/FR-S to an ND with upgraded dampers and likely better tires/alignment out of the box. That's the thing with the BRZ/FR-S, it's decent off the showroom floor, but is really a tweaker's car. A few well placed mods transform this car - a more aggressive alignment alone ($30 camber bolts up front) will make this car much more willing to turn.
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DAEMANO (10-19-2016)
Old 10-19-2016, 11:16 AM   #36
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Lol what's funny is I just drove my friend's ND miata last week and fell in love with it. So much so, I kind of want to sell my STI and get one haha!

The car had Advan wheels, AD08Rs, TEIN coilovers (aligned and corner balanced), GWR exhaust, and OFT tune. The short gearing, low weight, and smooth power band made it feel faster than my old FRS did when it had the headers+exhaust+tune on it.

If the miata had a header on it as well, it would have been even faster. After doing some research and seeing how inexpensive it is to track them and modify them a little bit, I'm so tempted.

Plus, I've always wanted a roadster, and since I don't really care to pick up somebody's leftover S2K project car, the current gen MX5 seems like a killer option.
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Old 10-19-2016, 12:22 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Sport-Tech View Post
Surprised that OP found the twins to be sharper in handling than the ND Miata - I have had a few drives in both lately, 17 BRZ and 86, and the Club edition Miata with the Bilstein shocks, LSD, and the Sport package forged BBS wheels and Brembos. Handling was sharp on the BRZ, but the car felt heavier and less lively than the ND - you really do notice those extra 400 or so pounds. That Club was like a cat on its toes just itching to dance, really amazing, urging you to give it more go. (Drove a 124 Abarth today as well, not so impressed with its softer suspension tuning.)

So fun factor win to the Miata by a good margin. But the Club was noise central top-up on the highway, suspension was a bit harsher than the twins, and it would struggle stowing a week's groceries. Plus it will cost about $8k more here in Canada. Tradeoffs....
I suspect similar to previous-gen Miatas that the larger body motions and shorter WB make the Miata more fun under say 7/10ths, whereas when really pushing the cars hard (backroads or a track), you might prefer the handling on the Twins. Probably the reason most of the published comparisons seem to prefer the handling on the Twins (M/T, Evo, EverydayDriver, etc.) - those reviewers tend to flog cars hard and often at the track.

Just my guess though. I haven't driven the ND yet, but that's been my experience pushing softer-sprung/damped cars in the past, including the NA-NC Miatas.
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Old 10-19-2016, 04:34 PM   #38
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Testing a 124 Abarth much more fully next week - that has less roll and squat than the Miata, so it might be a good midpoint. The one I drove briefly earlier was right off the truck and had not been PDI'd so no doubt had wrong tire pressures and maybe shipping blocks in the springs - still had all its plastic on.

As to the reviews: there are several other comparative reviews that favour the Miata over the twins, so there is clearly no consensus out there. Randy Pobst for example liked both on track but voted for the Miata due to its lightness and resultant agility.

I will be spending little if any time on a track, and driving either car at 100% on the street (aside from the occasional short kickdown of the go pedal) would lead to all kinds of trouble, so having more fun at less than 100% capacity utilization is a critical consideration for me.

There is a sense of cocooning the FT86 twins generate due to their relatively high cowl and dash, a problem the Fiata twins don't suffer from nearly as much. (I realize this cocooning is common to nearly all new cars on the road today, but I dislike it, and much prefer my current car's Acura Integra-like levels of forward visibility).
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Old 10-19-2016, 05:20 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Sport-Tech View Post

There is a sense of cocooning the FT86 twins generate due to their relatively high cowl and dash, a problem the Fiata twins don't suffer from nearly as much. (I realize this cocooning is common to nearly all new cars on the road today, but I dislike it, and much prefer my current car's Acura Integra-like levels of forward visibility).
What year is your integra? I have a 99 GSR and prefer the cocooning of the 86 to the integra. I think it works because the seating position is so low in the FRS compared to the integra where I feel like I'm floating on the car at high speeds.

The Miata/fiata will always feel more freeing since they are convertibles, and I love driving with the top down, but there are some times when a hard top is greatly appreciated too.
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