Manual vs Auto MPGs - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

4thehorde4 · 07-25-2012, 12:35 PM

Is there a reason why the hwy/city mpg of the auto fr-s is higher than the manual? I thought historically it was the other way around. And it's not just by a bit, its by 3+ mpg!

serith · 07-25-2012, 01:01 PM

Gearing.

4thehorde4 · 07-25-2012, 01:16 PM

If there is no performance or fuel efficient reason to get manual, whats the point anymore?

whtchocla7e · 07-25-2012, 01:18 PM

I bet I could get the same MPG figures with MT as with the AT if I wanted.
It's all about how you drive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4thehorde4

If there is no performance or fuel efficient reason to get manual, whats the point anymore?

The point is the same as it always has been.
If you don't see what MT offers over AT, you never will.

Reason · 07-25-2012, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4thehorde4

If there is no performance or fuel efficient reason to get manual, whats the point anymore?

Fun

Shinji2787 · 07-25-2012, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whtchocla7e

I bet I could get the same MPG figures with MT as with the AT.
It's all about how you drive.

Not to sound negative but I'd like to see that happen when you're under 3k RPM at 65+mph with the Auto but just at or above 3k RPM at 65+mph with the Manual

.

I'm a manual man here but the gear ratios put the engine at lower RPMs at the same speeds compared to manual. Which causes the engine to use less gas at the same cruising speeds.

Sigh-on-Rice · 07-25-2012, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4thehorde4

If there is no performance or fuel efficient reason to get manual, whats the point anymore?

To have fun. I'd still get 6-speed manual even when I have a choice of getting 8-speed auto with better 0-60 time and mpg.

FRiSson · 07-25-2012, 01:22 PM

The superiority of the FR-S/BRZ auto over the manual in testing is most likely an artifact of the testing protocol. In real-world driving there is unlikely to be any difference. A preliminary look at mileage already posted on Fuelly seems to show that there is minimal, if any difference. At some point automatic transmissions may trump manuals, but it requires the kind of sophisticated engine/transmission calibration that has only been achieved with CVT and dual clutch transmissions, not a six-speed, as in the FR-Z.

4thehorde4 · 07-25-2012, 01:22 PM

Maybe, but I'm sure the stats on their website has some merit.

MPG[4] (EPA CITY) (MT/AT) 22 / 25
MPG[4] (EPA HIGHWAY) (MT/AT) 30 / 34
MPG[4] (EPA COMBINED) (MT/AT) 25 / 28

It really struck me as odd since manual trannies have always been known to be more efficient. I'm pretty sure the current generation remembers that.

4thehorde4 · 07-25-2012, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRiSson

The superiority of the FR-S/BRZ auto over the manual in testing is most likely an artifact of the testing protocol. In real-world driving there is unlikely to be any difference. A preliminary look at mileage already posted on Fuelly seems to show that there is minimal, if any difference. At some point automatic transmissions may trump manuals, but it requires the kind of sophisticated engine/transmission calibration that has only been achieved with CVT and dual clutch transmissions, not a six-speed, as in the FR-Z.

Wouldn't have Toyota sensed that and then attempt to reconcile that with real world simulation? I would believe that if it was an mpg difference or two...but those site stats are really concerning...

DantKR · 07-25-2012, 01:25 PM

Gearing in ATs has over the past 3 years or so made them MORE efficient on mileage than MT. You'll almost never see a more effcient MT in anything beyond 2011 than AT.

Kimsey47 · 07-25-2012, 01:27 PM

I've been playing with the whole rev range and still averaging 32mpg with my manual... Wouldn't go back to paddle shifters for the world!

phattyduck · 07-25-2012, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4thehorde4

Wouldn't have Toyota sensed that and then attempt to reconcile that with real world simulation? I would believe that if it was an mpg difference or two...but those site stats are really concerning...

Toyota doesn't setup the testing protocol, the EPA does. They (Toyota) setup the auto to get the best MPG by adjusting the gearing, but they setup the M/T to work the best for driving/racing (otherwise they would get chewed up by the magazines/users/etc.).

Oh, and the auto can downshift anytime it wants without annoying the driver, so it can cruise as a much lower RPM with fewer negative effects from that perspective too.

-Charlie

mpicher · 07-25-2012, 01:32 PM

I'd agree with the 32 MPG and MT. I can do about 31 - 32 MPG with MT on cruise on the interstate.

Handling throttle duties myself and being 'careful' 35 - 36 MPG @ about 70 mph.

07-25-2012, 12:35 PM	#1
4thehorde4 Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Drives: Si Location: NJ Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Manual vs Auto MPGs Is there a reason why the hwy/city mpg of the auto fr-s is higher than the manual? I thought historically it was the other way around. And it's not just by a bit, its by 3+ mpg!

07-25-2012, 01:01 PM	#2
serith Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Drives: 2009 Scion tC RS 5.0 Location: Syracuse, NY Posts: 148 Thanks: 44 Thanked 63 Times in 33 Posts Mentioned: 3 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Gearing. __________________ 09 RS 5.0 -- #862 of 2000 -- 5spd

07-25-2012, 01:27 PM	#12
Kimsey47 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Drives: 2016 STI DGM Location: Chattanooga, TN Posts: 1,875 Thanks: 1,189 Thanked 1,460 Times in 662 Posts Mentioned: 9 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I've been playing with the whole rev range and still averaging 32mpg with my manual... Wouldn't go back to paddle shifters for the world! __________________ Subaru STI :

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07-25-2012, 01:16 PM	#3
4thehorde4 Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Drives: Si Location: NJ Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	If there is no performance or fuel efficient reason to get manual, whats the point anymore?

07-25-2012, 01:22 PM	#8
FRiSson Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Drives: FR-S MT Location: New England Posts: 1,081 Thanks: 118 Thanked 483 Times in 241 Posts Mentioned: 2 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	The superiority of the FR-S/BRZ auto over the manual in testing is most likely an artifact of the testing protocol. In real-world driving there is unlikely to be any difference. A preliminary look at mileage already posted on Fuelly seems to show that there is minimal, if any difference. At some point automatic transmissions may trump manuals, but it requires the kind of sophisticated engine/transmission calibration that has only been achieved with CVT and dual clutch transmissions, not a six-speed, as in the FR-Z.

07-25-2012, 01:25 PM	#11
DantKR Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Drives: Subaru BRZ LT Location: NC Posts: 759 Thanks: 7 Thanked 124 Times in 71 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Gearing in ATs has over the past 3 years or so made them MORE efficient on mileage than MT. You'll almost never see a more effcient MT in anything beyond 2011 than AT.

07-25-2012, 01:32 PM	#14
mpicher Autocross Nut Join Date: Jun 2012 Drives: Argento 2013 Scion FR-S - MT Location: Maine Posts: 117 Thanks: 50 Thanked 36 Times in 24 Posts Mentioned: 2 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	I'd agree with the 32 MPG and MT. I can do about 31 - 32 MPG with MT on cruise on the interstate. Handling throttle duties myself and being 'careful' 35 - 36 MPG @ about 70 mph.

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