|
Forced Induction Turbo, Supercharger, Methanol, Nitrous |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
09-14-2012, 02:01 AM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Drives: Tornado Grey Toyota 86 GT
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 126
Thanks: 78
Thanked 31 Times in 24 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Forced Induction - is there a long term reliability problem for the 86/BRZ
An interesting quote from this months (October 2012) MOTOR magazine from Australian rally champion Rick Bates;-
Bates had a sneaky drive of the 86 before its local launch and discussions with chief engineer Tetsuya Tada were revealing " I asked him about tuning and he said there are some internal engine parts that won't take (forced induction). So I'll be interested to see how reliable some of these ones making big power will be down the track" Makes me somewhat wary, but keen to see the various tuners responses. |
The Following User Says Thank You to Dazza For This Useful Post: | Guff (09-26-2012) |
09-14-2012, 02:15 AM | #2 |
Ridge Racerrrrrrrrr
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: 2013 Scion FR-S, 2004 Toyota Coroll
Location: Regina, Sk
Posts: 3,516
Thanks: 5,786
Thanked 1,363 Times in 954 Posts
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
|
tuners have this car pushing over 400 HP on stock internals and they have done hundreds of dyno pulls and countless drags and street runs.... I think that is the equivalent of many years of a normal persons use by now.
__________________
|
The Following User Says Thank You to SkAsphalt For This Useful Post: | Guff (09-26-2012) |
09-14-2012, 02:33 AM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Drives: 2015 Yuzu RS1.0 Scion FR-S #893
Location: San Fernando Valley, CA
Posts: 913
Thanks: 459
Thanked 414 Times in 264 Posts
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
|
Interesting quote there. Only time will tell what kind of stress the engine will be put through with the stock internals and forced induction.
|
09-14-2012, 02:35 AM | #4 |
Grip>Drift
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: FRS
Location: NorCal
Posts: 3,472
Thanks: 782
Thanked 1,749 Times in 918 Posts
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
|
I said to myself "well duh!"
How many non-factory turbo cars are built for a turbo? He just gave the engineers answer of "we didn't engineer it that way." What it was built to do and what it can do are not always the same thing.
__________________
|
The Following User Says Thank You to BlaineWasHere For This Useful Post: | Calum (09-24-2012) |
09-14-2012, 02:50 AM | #5 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: VN Commode
Location: Sydney
Posts: 74
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 5 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
"turbo" means different things
low blow at 8 psi is differnet to stuffing it full of 20 psu |
09-14-2012, 03:37 AM | #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Drives: Tornado Grey Toyota 86 GT
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 126
Thanks: 78
Thanked 31 Times in 24 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
|
09-14-2012, 03:42 AM | #7 | |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2012
Drives: 2012 honda civic ex
Location: salem,nh.
Posts: 1,676
Thanks: 299
Thanked 186 Times in 144 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
chief engineer! he should know! guess that means ya put a "blower" on it at your own peril!..kiss your warranty goodbye if it blows up! just sayin' |
|
09-14-2012, 04:27 AM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Drives: GTS 86 6M
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 218
Thanks: 146
Thanked 51 Times in 31 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
I must admiy at the moment there are 80 people who havent got very far with their car stock....
One poor guy had only 4 miles on the clock and straight back to the shop. Hopefully they will find the fault soon and have a fix. I think I will let the dust settle before I start "moding" the 86 too far. |
09-24-2012, 06:17 PM | #9 |
Sarcastic SOB
Join Date: May 2012
Drives: '13 FR-S M6, '23 Volvo V60 CC
Location: Thornhill Ontario
Posts: 4,614
Thanks: 1,344
Thanked 2,844 Times in 1,635 Posts
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
|
I am sure that from an engineer's perspective this car should not have forced induction in stock form.
If they did not factor the higher loading on various components when they were developed, they will not condone going beyond intended use on a stock spec car. It is not as though the car would have been "over engineered" with cost being a consideration. Stronger components almost always cost more. That said, perhaps a component designed for say, 100,000 km such as a clutch plate, might work just fine and not "blow up", but rather have a shortened service life. My concern is for internals whose failures would be "catastrophic" to the engine. Again, I get the feeling that it's wise to stay conservative with the boost and hope there are no unpleasant surprises. BTW I know squat about mechanicals. I do, however, work on a daily basis with engineers and have seen first hand they usually won't over engineer anything where there is cost constraint.
__________________
5:AD kit, HKS V1+ S/C, ECUtek dyno'd, Ohlins MP20, Magnaflow cb, Revworks UEL, Topspeed overpipe, Pinnacle Ceramic tint, VG shark fin, HID's, yellow DRL's, full LEDs, red floor lights, Homelink mirror, trunk lid liner, Perrin LWCP, Valenti smoked, Flossy Grip Tape Shorty, GT86 plaque, lighted vanity mirror, Michelin PSS, Project mU +800, DOT4 fluid, 720 Form GTF1 17x8&9, stitched leather bits, EZ valve.
|
09-24-2012, 06:25 PM | #10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: 2013 Asphalt FR-S
Location: Bloomington, MN
Posts: 1,156
Thanks: 499
Thanked 447 Times in 294 Posts
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Crawford tore this engine apart and said some components were built pretty well. Of course there is always a risk when boosting a car that was not engineered from the factory to take force induction but they have to say that for many reasons. I would put money on it that a well tuned, well taken care of FRS/BRZ that has a modest boost level, 6-10 psi could last over 100k miles. Take a look at the early Mazdaspeed Protege. I owned one. That had a stock Protege engine that was never meant for boost, but Mazda slapped on a Callaway designed turbo kit running 6.5 lbs of boost. I had my tuned at 10psi and drove it daily (including winters) for over 5 years, and 80k miles. I NEVER had an issue. And those engines are horribly weak. The FA20 has already been proven to take over 400whp. I don't see it being an issue at all.
__________________
Asphalt FR-S: EcuTek Visconti STG2 tune, MAPerformance turbo kit, MAPerformance 3" exhaust, Hotchkis springs, Mach-V 17x9 Awesomes.
Build thread: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30703 |
09-24-2012, 06:39 PM | #11 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: 2013 FR-S
Location: Anytown
Posts: 920
Thanks: 73
Thanked 643 Times in 302 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Engineers will always take the safest path when it comes to this sorta thing. The chief engineer had very little to do with this engine other than saying "that works for me" I'm sure.
This is a Subaru engine. The cost to retool an entire machining facility to run this engine means that it's going to be used in several applications. The engine was designed and built with that in mind. I'd be willing to bet there will be small variances in crankshaft stiffness, main bearing bolt strength, head gasket durability, piston thickness, and piston pin hardness between a NA and turba FA20. Then again there may well be no differance at all. |
The Following User Says Thank You to FirestormFRS For This Useful Post: | subatoy (09-24-2012) |
09-24-2012, 06:59 PM | #12 |
I Love custom Turbo kits
Join Date: Mar 2012
Drives: Limited BRZ
Location: Miami
Posts: 10,770
Thanks: 20,004
Thanked 8,343 Times in 4,361 Posts
Mentioned: 441 Post(s)
Tagged: 12 Thread(s)
|
I hope everyone understand how public relations work. The Chief Engineer CANNOT say the car will hold boost. IF he says yes, first motor that blows up is bad PR. He has no incentive to say otherwise.
In this case, it is better for him to be "proven wrong" by the tuning community. Nothing to see here guys/gals, move on.
__________________
|
09-24-2012, 07:40 PM | #13 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: the girls crazy
Location: Anjou
Posts: 276
Thanks: 160
Thanked 95 Times in 69 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Hundreds of dyno pull where you get your information from? please
|
The Following User Says Thank You to WatchmaN For This Useful Post: | bimmerboy (09-24-2012) |
09-24-2012, 07:43 PM | #14 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: 2013 Asphalt FR-S
Location: Bloomington, MN
Posts: 1,156
Thanks: 499
Thanked 447 Times in 294 Posts
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Don at Accelerated Performance for sure has hundreds of dyno pulls. He has also been daily driving the shop BRZ with over 450whp, 18-20psi of boost, and a few 1/4 mile runs including an 11.3 at 130+.
__________________
Asphalt FR-S: EcuTek Visconti STG2 tune, MAPerformance turbo kit, MAPerformance 3" exhaust, Hotchkis springs, Mach-V 17x9 Awesomes.
Build thread: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30703 |
The Following User Says Thank You to Opposed For This Useful Post: | SkAsphalt (09-25-2012) |
|
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
6AT (+) Forced Induction | RYU | Forced Induction | 18 | 09-09-2012 11:14 PM |
Forced Induction subforum? | n2oinferno | Site Announcements / Questions / Issues | 4 | 09-01-2012 02:00 AM |
Forced Induction | Primo86 | Engine, Exhaust, Transmission | 11 | 05-29-2012 07:50 PM |
Increasing torque with out forced induction | BigFatFlip | Engine, Exhaust, Transmission | 54 | 05-17-2012 08:03 PM |
Will you make your BRZ/FR-S Forced Induction? | koyv90 | Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum | 12 | 12-04-2011 09:31 PM |