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View Poll Results: What name should Toyota use for the production Toyota FT-1?
Supra gets my vote! 367 74.59%
I don't know, but its time for a new name. 125 25.41%
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Old 07-30-2018, 03:25 PM   #3347
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Totally agree with your statement. However, most experts say that the reason manual's sell that high in Europe is because of the price of "petrol". Low cost economy cars don't have the advanced automatic transmissions and thus manuals get better mpg. That is a two way sword, however, as automatics become more efficient at the low end. It takes a very long time for consumers to make this change -- but the change is happening, even in Europe and Asia. So the MT is dying, but at a very slow pace. The key inhibitor right now is the cost of advanced automatic transmissions. But as with most products, that cost curve will come down both in terms of design/production and in terms of larger volumes vis-a-vis manual transmissions.
It will probably disappear about the same time as the internal combustion engine so really a moot point in the long run.
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Old 07-30-2018, 03:29 PM   #3348
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Look at the perseverance in the drift market for 80s/90s cars. Our cars are still being produced, they have a long life ahead of them. As long as once in a while someone creates something fun to drive, the 20 years in between will remain as it has. I'd rather companies focus on making economical cars, so that with my car choice I can remain unique. If they stop offering manual transmissions, then people have to work to own them, that's all.

Let them milk those with closed eyes and deep pockets; we'll keep a private market to ourselves and enjoy the survival / resurrection life. Nothing is as satisfying as having someone ride in your 92 e36 and saying " wow, this car is nice! It has 312,000 miles and is almost 30 years old?!?!" I hope my FRS can live to 30, I'll wear it proudly under my butt.
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Old 07-30-2018, 04:35 PM   #3349
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Only 4% of the cars sold in the US last year were MTs. That sounds like a very low number until you consider that it is 4% of 17,000,000.
When you consider that they still sold 680,000 MTs it is pretty hard to imagine they will stop making them any time soon. Sure, 96% of the population is interested in appliance cars which will pretty much always be ATs nowadays but the market for specialty MT cars is alive, well and still kicking.


Since Europe and Asia are still running about 80% MTs the companies are not going to just stop making them. The whole "the MT is dying" thing is a purely North American perspective and does not represent the global trend.
You're only half right. While fewer and fewer cars are available with manual transmissions (esp in the US), American drivers, more than anyone else, are the ones complaining and demanding manual transmissions in sports cars. The bottom line is America is still the biggest sports car market in the world and automakers must accommodate those demands.

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BMW M2 Competition still has the manual for a reason, because in the U.S. we have more than a 50 percent take rate on manual transmissions for the M2.
https://jalopnik.com/finally-some-go...man-1827934751

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BMW is a perfect example: In Europe, the E60 M5 was only ever sold with the jerky SMG gearbox, its F10 successor with a more efficient and reliable dual clutch. Both were sufficiently fast, talented and desirable that we never really protested. And then we heard you could still buy manual versions of both in the U.S. Though the 2018 M5 has now gone two-pedal-only, you can still buy an M6 Gran Coupe with a stick, which we never got in Europe. And there we were thinking you didn't even know what a clutch pedal was for!
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Porsche must have sensed disquiet in the ranks of hardened GT fans. Director of GT cars Andreas Preuninger was placed on YouTube to explain his PDK epiphany and how a dual-clutch transmission could still offer the emotional connection we all wanted, how paddle shifters were the way forward and how a two-pedal GT3 was the logical road-going expression of his department's motorsport mentality.

And yet, here we are now with a second-generation 991 GT3 with the option of a manual transmission. Preuninger implied he'd staked his reputation on it being a success, and if take-up wasn't as hoped, he'd have some explaining to do. Just the other week at Geneva, the about-face from the previous PDK-or-the-highway stance was dramatic: Preuninger and vice president of motorsport and GT cars Frank Walliser were beaming with delight at customer response, most notably in the U.S., where two-thirds of second-generation GT3s have been ordered with the stick option.
https://www.autoblog.com/amp/2018/03...erica-opinion/
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Old 07-30-2018, 04:53 PM   #3350
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You're only half right. While fewer and fewer cars are available with manual transmissions (esp in the US), American drivers, more than anyone else, are the ones complaining and demanding manual transmissions in sports cars. The bottom line is America is still the biggest sports car market in the world and automakers must accommodate those demands.



https://jalopnik.com/finally-some-go...man-1827934751


Yep but sports cars make up less than 4% of the cars sold in the US so even many of them are AT. The "enthusiast" market may be vocal but it is such a small percentage that if they didn't accommodate those demands they wouldn't be out much. The MT will survive the life of the automobile as we know it but not because a few people demand it.


https://www.autoblog.com/amp/2018/03...erica-opinion/
Yep but sports cars make up less than 4% of the cars sold in the US so even many of them are AT. The "enthusiast" market may be vocal but it is such a small percentage that if they didn't accommodate those demands they wouldn't be out much. The MT will survive the life of the automobile as we know it but not because a few people demand it.
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Old 07-30-2018, 05:44 PM   #3351
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Originally Posted by DarkPira7e View Post
I'd rather companies focus on making economical cars, so that with my car choice I can remain unique. If they stop offering manual transmissions, then people have to work to own them, that's all.
Even as cars become more and more efficient / economical ( i.e. Prius , Yaris, etc) , that technology to some degree does trickle down to other cars in the line ( VVT technology, gearing mainly) , whether it's a sports car , SUV, or truck.
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Old 07-30-2018, 06:10 PM   #3352
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Personal preference is just that. I'm not sure why we are having this discussion again.




Oh wait. Internet.
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Old 07-30-2018, 06:18 PM   #3353
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This is a curiosity, but I've got to ask. What's the point of reinventing the wheel?

ASSUMING all reports about the Supra's power rating are remotely accurate (roughly 335hp and 400 lb-ft torque) then why the hell would anyone bother giving the Supra anything bespoke? The BMW 3.0 liter six already makes 300-460 hp in various iterations.

I fail to see the logic here, assuming the Supra has less than 400 hp.
As strange of an engineering ideology as it may be, Tada-San specifically has "Aftermarket Tuning Capable" as one of his main design goals and that is specifically in regards to the legacy of the JZ.

Now, I def agree that the B58 seemed like a good platform to do that with (it was a clean sheet design over the older n54/n55 motors), but apparently Tada-San and the team at Toyota had a number of grievances with the B58 design that they wanted to address. Hence, the larger scale redesign of the motor.

The other caveat is that there is still the possibility that the CGI version of the motor might not be available with the car at launch, but rather will be on the GRMN top-spec model, which may be fairly powerful (450hp+), and would benefit from the added strength. However, I have it on good authority that some of the mules running around as early as 2 years ago had the new "iron" motor in it and also weighed in at roughly 1380kg.

I'm digging every day for more info as to what we're getting in the production-spec cars, but Toyota has been locking down more and more of our sources as launch nears. My main takeaway is that Toyota has had far more of an aggressive role in shaping this car than the press lets off. There has been a significant Toyota engineering presence dedicated to this project and everything from the chassis, suspension, drivetrain, etc has been meticulously curated and modified to keep the car very Toyota in ideology.
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Old 07-30-2018, 06:18 PM   #3354
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Personal preference is just that. I'm not sure why we are having this discussion again.




Oh wait. Internet.
..but this point of contention isn't about any personal preference. Yes, some people are turning it into that for whatever reason, but the concern here is that Toyota may not give us the choice to even have a preference.
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Old 07-30-2018, 07:38 PM   #3355
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..but this point of contention isn't about any personal preference. Yes, some people are turning it into that for whatever reason, but the concern here is that Toyota may not give us the choice to even have a preference.
We may have to accept what they decide on, go figure.
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Old 07-30-2018, 09:02 PM   #3356
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..but this point of contention isn't about any personal preference. Yes, some people are turning it into that for whatever reason, but the concern here is that Toyota may not give us the choice to even have a preference.
There is no official word there is not going to be an MT at some point. It was even said that they plan to grow the platform so if there isn't one in the works for initial release there could be down the line a bit.

Reading this article (Moto is one of the few internet writers I trust) you will notice Tada gives very little away about the actual specs and set up of the car. People are just putting their own thoughts in there and others are running with them.
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Old 07-30-2018, 09:39 PM   #3357
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..but this point of contention isn't about any personal preference. Yes, some people are turning it into that for whatever reason, but the concern here is that Toyota may not give us the choice to even have a preference.
Yeah, I see that now. I was thinking more along the lines of this is better than that.
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Old 07-30-2018, 09:40 PM   #3358
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I'm sure all of you have read this.....

https://jalopnik.com/the-2019-toyota...ssi-1824270916

If the designer of the Supra thinks this way, and he is also designing the next gen 86, then what are the chances of a MT in any of these sports cars? I still think that from a corporate standpoint, the 86 is very likely to be discontinued as its volume declines. There is no way that the Toyota management will continue with such a low volume car with limited margins. I'm sure the Supra will have decent margins at a price point in the mid-50's especially with BMW being in the mix with the Z4. Lower volumes of higher margin cars can make it. It is all about profit in a public corporation.
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Old 07-30-2018, 09:54 PM   #3359
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I'm sure all of you have read this.....

https://jalopnik.com/the-2019-toyota...ssi-1824270916

If the designer of the Supra thinks this way, and he is also designing the next gen 86, then what are the chances of a MT in any of these sports cars? I still think that from a corporate standpoint, the 86 is very likely to be discontinued as its volume declines. There is no way that the Toyota management will continue with such a low volume car with limited margins. I'm sure the Supra will have decent margins at a price point in the mid-50's especially with BMW being in the mix with the Z4. Lower volumes of higher margin cars can make it. It is all about profit in a public corporation.
Dude. Stop reading that crap. That is an article from one rag using material from another. None of it is even remotely confirmed.

Hell, even they were not convinced with what they were writing.

"Before we get too upset, Tada was seemingly careful with his wording, and didn’t completely rule out a manual"
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Old 07-30-2018, 10:33 PM   #3360
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There is no official word there is not going to be an MT at some point. It was even said that they plan to grow the platform so if there isn't one in the works for initial release there could be down the line a bit.

Reading this article (Moto is one of the few internet writers I trust) you will notice Tada gives very little away about the actual specs and set up of the car. People are just putting their own thoughts in there and others are running with them.

I would be totally happy to be proven wrong by Toyota but most rumors, interviews and supposed insider information have all pointed towards no manual for the foreseeable future. Perhaps they are yanking our chains to build hype, but I would think confirming it is in development would make people want to line up with their wallets open. Sort of odd that Tada-san has somewhat contradicted himself when originally he used to talk about how vital MTs were during the 86 project while he seems a bit perplexed every time he gets questioned about its importance in the Supra.



As far as the specs, you're right it isn't official but from knowing the new Z4's official stats think we can make a safe bet it should be comparable. I can't imagine BMW would let Toyota have a tremendous performance advantage in the Supra especially with the supposed new engine variant.
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