Is weight no longer an issue in sports cars?

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by fatoni

honda has a few bucks more than ariel does to engineer things as well id imagine. when its all said and done, im just going to side with first and second hand experience by trusted voices over numbers on a spec sheet. to each their own.

And they had Ayrton Senna.

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

MR-transverse>RR-transverse>MR-long>RR-long

Get the front-to-rear stickiness worked out and you have a decent platform. Maybe all that it takes to get the Atom to play nicely is to tinker with wheel widths.

I'm curious if understeer is present always like even when mildly exerting the car through some country twisties at comparable speeds to other cars, or just at insane speeds. Considering the weight and power, the car must decelerate like no other car and accelerate like no other car, loading the suspension and transferring the weight like no other car, making a track comparison for composure a mute point, or at minimum, hard to do. With that said, if composure does seem "off" or the car seems too much setup for understeer, then adjustments could be made:

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by TommyW

Once they got things sorted out the platform worked well if the driver understood how to drive the car properly. There are nuances in handling just as in other cars. There are positives and negatives about the handling however a driver in a fairly modern 911 will be very fast around a racetrack if they understand the strengths and limitations..

Imagine how quick they’d be without the handicap.

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

What I’m saying is that RWD cars tend to oversteer by losing traction in the rear. This can be a natural property of the setup and suspension or throttle application. Inducing oversteer with the accelerator is obviously easier or proportional to hp/kg.

Some cars may be setup to “steer with the pedal” with understeer as the default behavior, but oversteer with throttle application. The 86 is an example of this. Oversteer is easy to correct by letting off the gas, but not as much if the car always wants to understeer or even is neutral. Watch reviews of high powered vehicles and you will notice understeer (sometimes even too much understeer in the reviewer’s opinion) is prevalent, and it is probably designed that way:

Skip to 7:00

The Miata and Elise are on the same 90” wheelbase, whereas the Corvette is on a 106” wheelbase. The short wheelbase lends itself to less rotational inertia meaning it will change directions faster and easier. Add tons of power with a twitchy throttle to a short wheelbase car then that can also be a recipe for oversteer.

Originally Posted by ZDan

Oversteer is easy to INDUCE by letting off the gas.
Performance driving 101:
Getting ON the gas generally induces UNDERsteer.
Getting OFF the gas generally induces OVERsteer.

If you lift off the gas mid-corner near limits of adhesion, that will tend to point the car into the curve MORE. You have to modulate/feather the throttle and correct with countersteering. Getting on the gas in the same situation will push the car wide, away from the corner.

That's not to say that power-on oversteer isn't a thing. But not so much in a ~14 lb/hp FT86...

Countless drivers of particularly responsive rwd cars have found themselves in the weeds by lifting off the gas when they started to get a little oversteer.

My line tightens with throttle application, until the point of oversteer, and widens when throttle is reduced or let off, in my 86.
Your statements are quite generalized, and in many cases downright false.

[TommyW]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

Imagine how quick they’d be without the handicap.

Well I guess after 50 years of people still buying em there must be something there. Seemed to do OK at Bathurst yesterday. I've owned several.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by TommyW

Well I guess after 50 years of people still buying em there must be something there. Seemed to do OK at Bathurst yesterday. I've owned several.

Stubbornness can pay off.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by TommyW

Well I guess after 50 years of people still buying em there must be something there. Seemed to do OK at Bathurst yesterday. I've owned several.

Stubbornness can pay off, but take to reigns off the Cayman, and it’s the better chassis. Hands down

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I'm curious if understeer is present always like even when mildly exerting the car through some country twisties at comparable speeds to other cars, or just at insane speeds.

That would require such poor alignment that it would seriously compromise the handling even below cruising speeds. All platforms need their emergency margin.

[86 South Africa]

Originally Posted by fatoni

In terms of relationships to lap time, power and weight don't have direct relations to each other. I'm not trying to discredit either argument but rather suggest that's its usually the faster car that's faster. Not the lighter or more powerful. More importantly, I don't think lap time is a good metric for a sports car.

This quite literally makes no sense.
In fact it makes less than zero sense.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by 86 South Africa

This quite literally makes no sense.
In fact it makes less than zero sense.

If I remembered the context in which I was taking, I'd elaborate but I don't. Thanks for the response.

[TommyW]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

And they had Ayrton Senna.



I'm curious if understeer is present always like even when mildly exerting the car through some country twisties at comparable speeds to other cars, or just at insane speeds. Considering the weight and power, the car must decelerate like no other car and accelerate like no other car, loading the suspension and transferring the weight like no other car, making a track comparison for composure a mute point, or at minimum, hard to do. With that said, if composure does seem "off" or the car seems too much setup for understeer, then adjustments could be made:

It's present at higher speeds and\or hard cornering, starting at about 1G or so. in very fast corners things generally turn to oversteer. Rather than putting parts on the car it's first best to learn how to prevent it and correct it through car control skills.

[Adam_L]

Yes weight is still an issue, in the last week I've heard a few people talking about it… whether it be Truck weight , or car weight. Notice how nice cars , if their weight is 3500+ lbs , the later generations /iterations tend to be a bit lighter ( the car manufactures are giving them something …. another positive). Somepeople may think, "Hey I'm dropping $50k on a new car, more is better….. more is more. Some don't realize that oftentimes less (weight) tends to be more.

Or , even more important then car weight is as a driver, drop some lbs off your own body/frame weight. You'll also live longer in the process! Your health is your wealth!!

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Adam_L

Or , even more important then car weight is as a driver, drop some lbs off your own body/frame weight. You'll also live longer in the process! Your health is your wealth!!

I was just thinking about this the other day. It would probably be easier to drop 20lbs off your body then 20lbs by removing your AC. Hahaha

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by ermax

I was just thinking about this the other day. It would probably be easier to drop 20lbs off your body then 20lbs by removing your AC. Hahaha

Depends if you have 20lbs to spare.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by new2subaru

Depends if you have 20lbs to spare.

True.. but the average person has plenty. Hahaha. I fortunately don't.

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by ermax

True.. but the average person has plenty. Hahaha. I fortunately don't.

For sure. I still fight to keep weight on at 55.