Brakes. Buy from dealer? What else to replace?

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by wparsons

Wow.

Yah know, that sums it up nicely.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Tristor

What you want is a liter (2 bottles) of Motul DOT 5.1 (street fluid), Centric/Stoptech Premium Rotors (they're like $33 each on RockAuto), and some high performance street pads like Carbotech 1521, Stoptech Sports, or EBC Red Stuff.


As someone else already mentioned, if you are needing to replace stock rotors you should be flushing (not just topping off) your brake fluid, it takes about 700ml to fully flush the system, I usually go through the whole liter though. Brake fluid is designed to be replaced completely (flushed) every 2 years at minimum, as it is hygroscopic (water absorbing) and it's wet performance is much lower than its dry performance. This is to prevent water causing rust in your braking system, but is obviously something that needs maintenance.



It's worth a little bit to get the Centric Premiums because they're coated in a corrosion resistance layer and made out of a different alloy which resists pitting better, so that they will survive longer and not just rust out straight away. Rust on rotors is normal, but you don't want them pitted where the friction surface is unable to be utilized fully.


You're looking at the following as a good starting point:


Rotors:


CENTRIC 12047021 Front Rotor (35.79) x2

CENTRIC 12047031 Rear Rotor (30.79) x2


Subtotal: $133.16



Pads:


CENTRIC 10515390 Posi-Quiet Front Pad Kit (30.79)

CENTRIC 10511240 Posi-Quiet Rear Pad Kit (27.99)


Subtotal: $58.78 for a basic option


Or as an example


EBC Redstuff Front Pad Kit (97.61)
EBC Redstuff Rear Pad Kit (72.23)


Subtotal: $169.84


Fluid:


Motul DOT 5.1 500ml (8.37) x2


or


ATE Type200 DOT 4 1L (15.19)


Subtotal: ~$16


So you're in around $320 total in parts to replace your entire braking system, except for the lines and calipers, with decent quality stuff. You can do all of the labor yourself, it's not that hard, but it's around 2 hours an axle for book time, so if you go somewhere expect to pay $360-$500 for labor.


That's basically all you need to know. Don't neglect your brakes, they're a critical safety component and I see way too many ragged out shitboxes rolling around my city as it is.

are all these prices off rock auto? because i'm not seeing EBC redstuff's?

[GrantedTaken]

I've read some report of Centric warping after 6 months.
https://www.amazon.com/Centric-Parts.../dp/B000BZXR5Y

I'd rather spend more and get quality parts.

Gonna look up Power Stop & DBA

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by mav1178

Centric and Stoptech are 100% legit..... and made in China. not like anyone cares other than "oh this is made in this country so it must be crap"

Originally Posted by finch1750

For fuck sake just Google Centric if you dont believe the "ricers" here. These are the same rotors recommend by most people that track since they are quality and cheap

They are one of the biggest brake companies around.

We have the big book of brake manufactures at work and people would be very surprised to find out that the name on the rotor is not always who made them. There are only about 400 plants that manufacture rotors around the whole world. They can be making 3 or even 4 different "brands" right beside each other. It doesn't matter one little bit where the rotor is made since they are made to the customers spec. If the customer wants a cheap ass rotors that they can sell on Ebay for $10 we can make it here. They want a $1500 rotor for F1 cars we can make that as well but it could also be made in China. Just tell us what you want and how much you want it for and we can make it. So can the plants in Germany, China, Japan, India, Korea and Lower Slovovia. The only rule that can be consistently applied is that the cheaper the rotor is the worse the material and tolerances are. You can NOT make a top quality rotor for a dirt cheap price even in the emerging regions. Somthing has to give to meet price points. It doesn't mean that a less expensive rotor is bad just that it is not as good as it could be. People need to forget the whole sweeping "Brand X makes great/horrible parts" statements since even in a certain brand there will be high end and low end parts to cover the market range.

Some companies/plants are better than others of course and can make those tight spec parts that many of the others can not. We have taken several large OEM contracts away from our major competitor simply because they could not meet some very tight specs. The other company is probably the go to company on this forum and they could not meet the requirements whereas I doubt many here even knew we make brake components at all much less that we are one of the top three highest volume manufacturers in the world for them. We are constantly testing our competitors quality and know where the other brands stack up against us for both good and bad. And, before anybody, asks NO I can not share that data or I would quickly become unemployed.

So in summary if you buy dirt cheap rotors they will be crap no matter who's name is on them. If you stick to mid priced ones for street or light track use they will be fine no matter who's name is on them. If you buy expensive high end rotors you will have some quality. The only caution on any level is don't get suckered into paying big bucks for a cheap rotor because it has grooves holes or other things to make it seem like a good one when really it isn't.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by GrantedTaken

I've read some report of Centric warping after 6 months.
https://www.amazon.com/Centric-Parts.../dp/B000BZXR5Y

I'd rather spend more and get quality parts.

Is Power Stop considered better?
Where can I find DBA rotors?

At that price point that is a good mid range rotor. I would easily put it on par with the OEM. If people are warping them they are installing them wrong or heating them up to a level that would be almost unbelievable. Rotors don't warp over time they warp under very specific condition.

[GrantedTaken]

You get what you pay for.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The only caution on any level is don't get suckered into paying big bucks for a cheap rotor because it has grooves holes or other things to make it seem like a good one when really it isn't.

So the slotted rotors don't offer any measurable advantage over a solid rotor? Just mostly more marketing wank?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by soundman98

So the slotted rotors don't offer any measurable advantage over a solid rotor? Just mostly more marketing wank?

Well yes and no. Contrary to popular opinion slots and holes do not help cool brakes. They do however help with reducing dust, gases and moisture that can reduce friction. They are not a gimmick and serve a function when properly designed. The problem that comes up is that cheap rotors just have holes drilled or slots cut more for looks than application. A good slotted or drilled rotor will be FNC'ed or heat treated and have stress relief done. This costs money but without it those slots or holes can cause the rotor the crack and twist even during normal use.
So on a quality, well designed and properly processed rotor do they work? Most certainly, but at a price. On a cheap one they are mostly just bling for the ricers and could cut the life of the rotor substantially. So... if a brand offers a solid rotor for $10 and one that is identical but slotted for $20 you can bet it was not processed well.

[Tristor]

Originally Posted by soundman98

are all these prices off rock auto? because i'm not seeing EBC redstuff's?

RockAuto doesn't sell EBC. The EBC price I showed is from FT86 SpeedFactory

[Tristor]

Originally Posted by GrantedTaken

I've read some report of Centric warping after 6 months.
https://www.amazon.com/Centric-Parts.../dp/B000BZXR5Y

I'd rather spend more and get quality parts.

Gonna look up Power Stop & DBA

Most of the time when people say their rotors "warped", that's because they experience shuddering in the pedal and after taking it in its shown they are out of true when checked with a dial indicator. But they're not mechanically warped like this implies in the vast majority of cases, instead this is caused by an uneven buildup of pad material and carbon deposits. The underlying root cause of that is nearly always one of the following five things, in order of commonality:

1) Improper bedding procedure after rotor/pad installation.
2) Wheel hub out of true (most shops fail to correctly verify hub and rotor runout with a dial indicator)
3) Improper (excessive) torque applied during tire and wheel installation causing rotor to be forced out of true (this also damages your wheel bearings and hub assembly)
4) Uneven rust build-up on the rotor face from the car sitting parked a long time was not cleared prior to hard braking leaving uneven pad material that exacerbates over time.
5) The rotor had a casting issue during manufacturing which resulted in an uneven surface.

Only one of these issues is actually caused by a "bad" rotor, and generally regardless of cause it first manifests to the casual driver around 5000 miles after pad/rotor service. Given this, someone reporting that they experienced "warped rotors" after 6 months means absolutely fuck all about Centric quality. Given the track record of Centric I 99.99999% guarantee their issue was caused by #1, #2, or #3. There's a lot of knuckleheads that don't know what a dial indicator is, don't give a fuck about wheel bearing play, and think 7 ugga uggas on the 1/2" impact is the right torque spec for lug nuts.

But you do you man, if you want to spend more money for no reason since you're not doing performance driving, by all means go for it. DBA makes fantastic products too, at a premium price.

[Tristor]

Also, I'm out. I've done a lot to try to help you in this thread and you seem to not be receptive to people answering your questions with solid information. I see no point in continuing to waste my time. If you had any clue about parts quality you'd be able to look at my build thread on these very forums and recognize that I don't cheap out or cut corners on anything on my car, and I would never recommend something I wouldn't use myself. But by all means, act like Centric/StopTech is a bad brand because you found one guy who didn't know how to bed in his brakes and spend more for DBA. DBA makes good products too, but for your purpose it's absolutely unnecessary overkill.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Tristor

Most of the time when people say their rotors "warped", that's because they experience shuddering in the pedal and after taking it in its shown they are out of true when checked with a dial indicator. But they're not mechanically warped like this implies in the vast majority of cases, instead this is caused by an uneven buildup of pad material and carbon deposits. The underlying root cause of that is nearly always one of the following five things, in order of commonality:

1) Improper bedding procedure after rotor/pad installation.
2) Wheel hub out of true (most shops fail to correctly verify hub and rotor runout with a dial indicator)
3) Improper (excessive) torque applied during tire and wheel installation causing rotor to be forced out of true (this also damages your wheel bearings and hub assembly)
4) Uneven rust build-up on the rotor face from the car sitting parked a long time was not cleared prior to hard braking leaving uneven pad material that exacerbates over time.
5) The rotor had a casting issue during manufacturing which resulted in an uneven surface.

Only one of these issues is actually caused by a "bad" rotor, and generally regardless of cause it first manifests to the casual driver around 5000 miles after pad/rotor service. Given this, someone reporting that they experienced "warped rotors" after 6 months means absolutely fuck all about Centric quality. Given the track record of Centric I 99.99999% guarantee their issue was caused by #1, #2, or #3. There's a lot of knuckleheads that don't know what a dial indicator is, don't give a fuck about wheel bearing play, and think 7 ugga uggas on the 1/2" impact is the right torque spec for lug nuts.

But you do you man, if you want to spend more money for no reason since you're not doing performance driving, by all means go for it. DBA makes fantastic products too, at a premium price.

We make 4 million rotors a year at my one plant. We get 2 or 3 warranty claims (from the dealers) a year for "warped" rotors. The majority are your numbers 1 through 3. A few are usually prefixed by the claim statement with something like "was pulling a non braked trailer down the rocky mountains for 6 hours and smelled smoke. Customer complained that brakes felt strange afterward. Rotor found to be warped". These ones are usually a really pretty shade of blue when we get hem back for analysis. Needless to say the warranty claims are denied.
Your number 5 is only possible if the customer didn't want to pay for 100% end of line gauging. Like I said before the customer sets the specs and gauging can vary from 100% to 1% depending on their requirements. Not to say that a bad one couldn't slip through or 100% system but to place a failed rotor on a good finished product skid would mean taking it off the reject chute and carrying it about 50 feet to the palatalizing area. There are very few operators that are that ambitious.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Tristor

Most of the time when people say their rotors "warped", that's because they experience shuddering in the pedal and after taking it in its shown they are out of true when checked with a dial indicator. But they're not mechanically warped like this implies in the vast majority of cases, instead this is caused by an uneven buildup of pad material and carbon deposits. The underlying root cause of that is nearly always one of the following five things, in order of commonality:

1) Improper bedding procedure after rotor/pad installation.
2) Wheel hub out of true (most shops fail to correctly verify hub and rotor runout with a dial indicator)
3) Improper (excessive) torque applied during tire and wheel installation causing rotor to be forced out of true (this also damages your wheel bearings and hub assembly)
4) Uneven rust build-up on the rotor face from the car sitting parked a long time was not cleared prior to hard braking leaving uneven pad material that exacerbates over time.
5) The rotor had a casting issue during manufacturing which resulted in an uneven surface.

Only one of these issues is actually caused by a "bad" rotor, and generally regardless of cause it first manifests to the casual driver around 5000 miles after pad/rotor service. Given this, someone reporting that they experienced "warped rotors" after 6 months means absolutely fuck all about Centric quality. Given the track record of Centric I 99.99999% guarantee their issue was caused by #1, #2, or #3. There's a lot of knuckleheads that don't know what a dial indicator is, don't give a fuck about wheel bearing play, and think 7 ugga uggas on the 1/2" impact is the right torque spec for lug nuts.

But you do you man, if you want to spend more money for no reason since you're not doing performance driving, by all means go for it. DBA makes fantastic products too, at a premium price.

and just in case that's not enough, i save these links to remind myself.
http://www.brakeandfrontend.com/warped-rotors-myth/

https://www.apcautotech.com/getmedia...c-8-2018_1.pdf

[GrantedTaken]

I've had second thoughts. I think I'm going to keep my rotors and just replace the pads. I'll just use centric pads. I agree that centric rotors premium are perfectly fine.

My rotors seem smooth actually upon second inspection .
and the lip is not that bad at all