Gun Showcase Thread (No Politics or Philosophical Discussions)

[MVJ1975]

5.7 = doing what 7.62x25 Tokarev does for five times the price.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by SirBrass

Actually, they penetrate just fine. 9mm does, that is. Protective vests aren't just kevlar.

Kevlar resists cutting, not puncture. So, kevlar is great against knives, but shoot it, and you've still got problems.

And the 5.7 cartridge that civilians are allowed to buy won't penetrate. It's specifically downloaded so it won't (whoever made that decision watched and believed Lethal Weapon 2 a bit too much I think).

Effectively, even in military and police, except in the P90, it's a gimmick cartridge. Neat idea, poor execution (it's a friggin PISTOL round, not a good and proper rifle round), expensive as hell compared to cartridges which generally work quite well, for values of "work" among pistols.

Tell us how you feel about .357SIG

[Muaddib]

Originally Posted by MVJ1975

5.7 = doing what 7.62x25 Tokarev does for five times the price.

And the 7.62x25 Tokarev is based on the Mauser round which predates most modern pistol rounds.

[RFB]

Originally Posted by Muaddib

And the 7.62x25 Tokarev is based on the Mauser round which predates most modern pistol rounds.

Don't use it in a broomhandle though, way to hot and the cold steel is way to old LOL !

All pistol bottleneck cartridges are excellent pills, Winston Churchill shot a Dutchman at 800 yards with his broomhandle during the Boer war.



CERBERUS

[RFB]

Originally Posted by MVJ1975

5.7 = doing what 7.62x25 Tokarev does for five times the price.

Actually no it doesn't. The Toke round was designed as a bottleneck pistol cartridge for extra oomph over the competition on the battlefield. It has more stopping power at longer distance than the competition.

The 5.7 is a mission specific cartridge designed to defeat body armour - an assassins weapon - (more effective on guard dogs and sentries than a crossbow). The 5.7 does not have stopping power at distance (velocity yes).

The 7.62X25 makes a good round for recreational shooters - cheap, easily available in bulk (usually corrosive).

The 5.7 is for professionals where their survival is not measured by cost of ammo. 40 countries have adopted it.

To bad the pistol for it is made out of tupperware.



CERBERUS

[Muaddib]

Originally Posted by RFB

Don't use it in a broomhandle though, way to hot and the cold steel is way to old LOL !

All pistol bottleneck cartridges are excellent pills, Winston Churchill shot a Dutchman at 800 yards with his broomhandle during the Boer war.



CERBERUS

One of the fellow at my local range used the 7.62x25 tok in his C-96. Well he lost an eye to keep things short.

[RFB]

Originally Posted by Muaddib

One of the fellow at my local range used the 7.62x25 tok in his C-96. Well he lost an eye to keep things short.

YYYEPP !

However, due to the scarcety of broomhandle ammo, I have heard of C96 and Bolo users go through the hassle of drilling out the berdan primers and using the brass for reloads as well as just pulling the bullets and replacing the powder charge.

My solution - I have 2 Red Nines ! My broom handles shoot regular 9mm .
One is a WW2 German civilian police gun, the other a post WW1 converted to 9mm for the Waffen SS (with a shoulder stock and a fixed 30 rd. Schnellfuer stick mag) !




CERBERUS

[Vracer111]

I prefer "plastic" pistols over the steel counterparts... you don't have to freaking disassemble the grips after each trip to the range to keep the frame from rusting underneath them - your sweat gets under there and will rust it out. Plus they are lighter weight and better at managing recoil than a metal frame. HK and Glock all the way for me...

My HK:

USP Expert...my favorite handgun to shoot - a precision machine that freaking shocked me the first time I shot it (5 shots in a single near .40 cal hole from 10 yards...) LOVE the match trigger on it - buttery smooth release with just a slight increase in pressure after all the pre-travel has been takenup. HK knows how to make a mass produced firearm that is perfect (both in machining detail and function) STOCK. Sig Arms is a close second...



My Glocks:

1) G20C, KKM compensated barrel, Meprolight Tritium adjustable sights, and extended capacity magazines. The only thing that needs improvement for me is the grip, it really could use a grip reduction on it - much larger and less secure hold than the HK Expert (which is perfect for me.) I love the 10mm Auto round, had a EAA Witness Match (all steel gun) which was an okay but seriously flawed gun (frame cracking issues...mine cracked on both sides of the slide release lever, underneath the grip panels.) Glock 20/20C surpasses it in every way (reliability, functionality, performance, capacity) except is not as pretty... It also works FLAWLESSLY (I'd never trust the EAA witness) and has 20 round capacity. I will say being compensated it's LOUD... double hearing protection seriously recommended. I actually just went to the indoor range recently to function check (due to work done for a chambering issue because of some light corrosion/contamination) my brothers Savage 10 FCP McMillan .308 rifle with JP Enterprises muzzle brake on a shortened 18.5 barrel and it was quieter than my compensated Glock 20C... Side note, I love how his rifle shoots, I shot it before at 200 yards and thing is a tack driver with hardly any kick - you don't have to re-find your target after the shot. I want to get a muzzle brake put on mine!



2)Gen 3 G19 (beside using the stock disconnector from my brothers G34 for a better trigger pull)...it's a stock Gen 3 G19... so no pic needed. I will say the grip fits me the best of all the Gen 3 Glocks, weirdly better than the full sized G34/17. G19 fits the bill for a carry capable firearm that is not expensive, 100% reliable, and fun to shoot.

I have owned a steel frame gun I really liked (for the most part - I really don't like .45 caliber though...):

CZ97B, Had a Baby Desert Eagle before and the CZ totally blows it away in regards to quality of the parts and fit. Only issue (besides the Magazine issues... LOL) is the trigger is not as good as it could be. If I kept it I would have had it sent in to CZ Custom Shop for a trigger job and SAO conversion.
A 97B in polymer I'd be all over provided it could feed all ammo types reliably, not just ball semi-reliably...



I also had a CZ 75 SP-01 Phantom. I just couldn't adjust to the grip (too small/short - I have long, skinny fingers - wear XL size gloves) and again with the non-competition CZ's the trigger needed some work. Performed flawlessly and was well put together, I just didn't really like shooting it that much, much prefer shooting the G19 over it.

[OrbitalEllipses]

I'm not sure how plastic manages recoil better than steel. The full-size USP has that dual recoil spring tech and I've always heard the recoil isn't bad, but I still like metal - especially since carry doesn't exist here. In my experience, polymer frames like the Glock and M&P just can't compare to the sheer mass of a metal frame.

[Vracer111]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

I'm not sure how plastic manages recoil better than steel. The full-size USP has that dual recoil spring tech and I've always heard the recoil isn't bad, but I still like metal - especially since carry doesn't exist here. In my experience, polymer frames like the Glock and M&P just can't compare to the sheer mass of a metal frame.

It's not about the mass, its about the absorption and deflection characteristics of the forces in a polymer frame where in a steel frame you feel more of the force transmitted directly into your hand because of its rigidity. Accuracy and precision is not affected one bit by this either, the frames are engineered to flex all day every day and it occurs after the bullet has left the barrel. No rust potential where your sweaty hands contact it all the time is my #1 reason for preferring polymer/composite frames, followed by their better management of the recoil forces and lighter weight.

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Tell us how you feel about .357SIG

357sig is excellent. It has good & sufficient mass (generally it comes in 124gr), excellent loading characteristics (due to bottleneck vs straight wall), and excellent velocity.

The downsides are: availability & cost of ammo (higher than with other rounds), guns chambered for it are limited, and difficulty in reloading.

However, its performance in actual gun fights show a tendency towards one-shot stops, even when the hit was a non-critical extremity hit (more than with other rounds), and effectiveness on par with other good defensive calibers (for lethality with good shot placement). It's not per se a "superior" round, but it has a solid & proven track record as a good man-stopper, right along with 9, 40, & 45.

I have a gun chambered in it (my M&Pc), and it's a fine blaster that isn't bad at all to shoot 357sig through.

On phone I am. Therefore, if mistakes I make, Frank Oz blame you should.

[Muaddib]

10mm > .357sig.

[RFB]

Originally Posted by Muaddib

10mm > .357sig.

Anyone remember the Bren 10 ?



Cerberus

[Muaddib]

Yesssss