Is a BRZ what I want?

[Darkone]

Hey everyone, need your help making a decision if the BRZ is for me!

I used to own a SRT4 and I loved to work on it. I am looking for a car to work on and have fun with. I am more of a mechanic than a racer so speed is not a super concern. Graduated got a good job bought a BMW M3. Its a great car but honestly not shade tree mechanic friendly. There is no service/tech manual available..so your on your own with no torque specs, assembly, etc. The problem is further complicated in that the engine itself is a 20k engine, German technology, and high tech. Honestly working on a 20k engine is not fun and not worth the risk! On top of that the after market and parts in general are crazy expensive. It also has bearing failure and it is starting to come up more and more with owners. Also, honestly..everyone on those forums are generally rich jerks....

So, I start looking around for a car that was inexpensive, had lots of room for improvement and would be fun to work on. Most of all looked great...BRZ?

So my questions are:
1. Are the after market parts fairly inexpensive?
2. Service Tech manual available for purchase?
3. Engine fairly easy to work on?
4. Engine reliable? With a 12:1 compression ratio is anyone having problems with modifying and causing motor meltdown?
5. Are people seeing significant improvements from turbos etc. getting the car down to 14 second quarter miles or better? Or is everyone having to do total internal motor and drivetrain improvements to handle the power?
6. Negatives of car?

Please comment on the 6 questions above ...and if you think based on what I mentioned this car is what I am looking for.

[rgt]

What year M3?

[Darkone]

Originally Posted by rgt

What year M3?

2011

[JakeG]

im not 100 percent on this one but if those are your concerns, The 86 will be the best car you have ever driven. The only negatives i can think of (that i can see on a daily basis) would be the amount of plastic, way to much plastic for a 45k car (AUD).

[raven1231]

In short yes to all of these

[robwbright]

The common negatives I've seen noted and can remember include:

1: The BRZ either has barely enough power or needs more power or needs WAY more power... depending on who you talk to (and it sounds like you intend to remedy that with mods). It's a lot of fun stock when you ring it out, but many will want at least 30-40 HP added... then again, others will want 300 added. Personally, I will probably eventually mod until around 230 WHP - because it seems that that level of power is "safe" and doesn't require clutch upgrade.

2: Rattles in the door panels and other plastic (remedied by application dynamat or similar).

3: Stock audio system isn't great. Some, including me are satisfied with adding a powered sub, others replace head unit and add the OEM Audio speaker system.

4: Minor recalls like condensation in tail lights and issues with the GPS (I've had a little of the first and haven't had the second).

5: Stock tires aren't very sticky. This was planned by design (so that the driver could have fun sliding the rear end at legal speeds... but some want more grip. Stock grip is apparently around .90g (which is hardly terrible). A tire and wheel change can apparently get you at or over 1.0g with no suspension mods.

6: Tiny rear seats. I think this is overstated IF driver and passenger are vertically challenged people (I'm 5'4", my wife is 5'5"... we squeeze our 10 year old and 4 year old in the back seats and no one complains... once they're in). It is not overstated at all if driver/passenger are 6' plus tall. The back of the front seat will essentially touch the front of the back seat if you slide all the way back.

7: Crickets. Apparently fuel pump related, but some cars sound like there are crickets under the hood sometimes. I think replacement fuel pump resolves that issue for those that have it.

I do wish there were more/different storage locations and different cup holder designs... but this car isn't a 7 series BMW.

Basically, I haven't seen or experienced any major/common complaints that can't be fixed under warranty and/or relatively inexpensively. But I'm only at 5k miles so far and I certainly haven't read posts on here as much as some others have.

In short, to me, the negatives are minor issues/inconveniences that are FAR outweighed by the positive aspects of the car. Handling, fun factor, appearance, seats are off the charts for a 25k-29k car. Rarity, too - I have not seen a BRZ within 50 miles of where I live. I've only seen a couple FRS within 50 miles of here. There's a lot of aftermarket stuff available to upgrade the power (and anything else you want to change). And averaging about 28-29 mpg in mixed driving is pretty cool in a sports car. YMMV, of course.

The car audio guy who drove the car around the block and spent a bit of time scrunched up in it installing the sub asked me how much it cost. When I told him, he said, "Man, all of us here love it. We thought you paid around 40k".

That seems to be a common thought from those who sorta kinda know cars but aren't that familiar with the BRZ.

[Darkone]

Originally Posted by robwbright

The common negatives I've seen noted and can remember include:

1: The BRZ either has barely enough power or needs more power or needs WAY more power... depending on who you talk to (and it sounds like you intend to remedy that with mods). It's a lot of fun stock when you ring it out, but many will want at least 30-40 HP added... then again, others will want 300 added. Personally, I will probably eventually mod until around 230 WHP - because it seems that that level of power is "safe" and doesn't require clutch upgrade.

2: Rattles in the door panels and other plastic (remedied by application dynamat or similar).

3: Stock audio system isn't great. Some, including me are satisfied with adding a powered sub, others replace head unit and add the OEM Audio speaker system.

4: Minor recalls like condensation in tail lights and issues with the GPS (I've had a little of the first and haven't had the second).

5: Stock tires aren't very sticky. This was planned by design (so that the driver could have fun sliding the rear end at legal speeds... but some want more grip. Stock grip is apparently around .90g (which is hardly terrible). A tire and wheel change can apparently get you at or over 1.0g with no suspension mods.

6: Tiny rear seats. I think this is overstated IF driver and passenger are vertically challenged people (I'm 5'4", my wife is 5'5"... we squeeze our 10 year old and 4 year old in the back seats and no one complains... once they're in). It is not overstated at all if driver/passenger are 6' plus tall. The back of the front seat will essentially touch the front of the back seat if you slide all the way back.

7: Crickets. Apparently fuel pump related, but some cars sound like there are crickets under the hood sometimes. I think replacement fuel pump resolves that issue for those that have it.

I do wish there were more/different storage locations and different cup holder designs... but this car isn't a 7 series BMW.

Basically, I haven't seen or experienced any major/common complaints that can't be fixed under warranty and/or relatively inexpensively. But I'm only at 5k miles so far and I certainly haven't read posts on here as much as some others have.

In short, to me, the negatives are minor issues/inconveniences that are FAR outweighed by the positive aspects of the car. Handling, fun factor, appearance, seats are off the charts for a 25k-29k car. Rarity, too - I have not seen a BRZ within 50 miles of where I live. I've only seen a couple FRS within 50 miles of here. There's a lot of aftermarket stuff available to upgrade the power (and anything else you want to change). And averaging about 28-29 mpg in mixed driving is pretty cool in a sports car. YMMV, of course.

The car audio guy who drove the car around the block and spent a bit of time scrunched up in it installing the sub asked me how much it cost. When I told him, he said, "Man, all of us here love it. We thought you paid around 40k".

That seems to be a common thought from those who sorta kinda know cars but aren't that familiar with the BRZ.

Thanks for all the info. and the time informing me ! I appreciate it!!!

[h4nh]

Originally Posted by Darkone

Hey everyone, need your help making a decision if the BRZ is for me!

I used to own a SRT4 and I loved to work on it. I am looking for a car to work on and have fun with. I am more of a mechanic than a racer so speed is not a super concern. Graduated got a good job bought a BMW M3. Its a great car but honestly not shade tree mechanic friendly. There is no service/tech manual available..so your on your own with no torque specs, assembly, etc. The problem is further complicated in that the engine itself is a 20k engine, German technology, and high tech. Honestly working on a 20k engine is not fun and not worth the risk! On top of that the after market and parts in general are crazy expensive. It also has bearing failure and it is starting to come up more and more with owners. Also, honestly..everyone on those forums are generally rich jerks....

So, I start looking around for a car that was inexpensive, had lots of room for improvement and would be fun to work on. Most of all looked great...BRZ?

So my questions are:
1. Are the after market parts fairly inexpensive?
2. Service Tech manual available for purchase?
3. Engine fairly easy to work on?
4. Engine reliable? With a 12:1 compression ratio is anyone having problems with modifying and causing motor meltdown?
5. Are people seeing significant improvements from turbos etc. getting the car down to 14 second quarter miles or better? Or is everyone having to do total internal motor and drivetrain improvements to handle the power?
6. Negatives of car?

Please comment on the 6 questions above ...and if you think based on what I mentioned this car is what I am looking for.

Get it. Keep the m3 though.

It's way easier to work on. Parts are cheaper generally, however if you but high end parts like brembos and hre wheels then they're the same price.

[Darkone]

Does a BRZ have more body kit options or the FRS. It seems like the FRS TRD division was advertising all these options but I am unsure about the BRZ?

[jkonquer]

If working on car is the main goal, i would really look into either sti wrx or even an evo. They have tons of part, very inexpensive, tons of online and community support, and just great engine to work with.

Brz' are great car for its handling characteristics, not much in engine department. There are always turbo which can get you to 300whp safetly. And if handling is what you are looking for, i would get brz over any other cars. Parts are much cheaper than s2000 and possibly larger aftermarket parts in future than a s2000.

[Darkone]

Originally Posted by jkonquer

If working on car is the main goal, i would really look into either sti wrx or even an evo. They have tons of part, very inexpensive, tons of online and community support, and just great engine to work with.

Brz' are great car for its handling characteristics, not much in engine department. There are always turbo which can get you to 300whp safetly. And if handling is what you are looking for, i would get brz over any other cars. Parts are much cheaper than s2000 and possibly larger aftermarket parts in future than a s2000.

I hear ya, but honestly, it comes down to appearance. I think the BRZ looks way better than the STi or Evo. To have it also cost 10k + less is amazing to me. Since I had a SRT4 in the past the Sti and EVO just seem like more expensive versions of the SRT4. They look allot alike and the performance was simiar. So looking to do something way different.

[Darkone]

Anyone want to comment on the body kits available on the BRZ? Does the Scion have more options? TRD seems like they have perfect fitment although they cost more. I have heard that aftermarket kits suck and dont fit well. So does the BRZ have good oem options or is this less selection for the BRZ?

[wbradley]

Aside from the sport tech features offered in the BRZ, I‘d go with the FR-S. More body options, more dealers, more supply, nicer face IMHO, nicer dash IMHO. That is, unless you are going sport tech, thats a good value for the $.

If you want power, get a WRX. It doesn't cost much for a tune and down pipe to make it a monster.

Most of my mods on the FR-S are cosmetic. Unless you are tracking it, it doesn't needs a ton more power unless you want it in a whole different power class. At that point after supporting mods you could just buy a used higher end car...back to the M3.

[1086]

A lot of your questions could have been quickly answered in about 5 minutes with some google searching followed by some mouse 1 clicking. In short, the 86 platform was designed to be (arguably) the best & most friendly tuner car this side of the millennium. I think it is the perfect car for exactly what you want to do, as described in your original post. The common "complaint" by people is that it is underpowered (beat a dead horse more please) but most of the people that say that are ignorant, dumb, dumb, and stupid idiot head faces. The car was meant to be kept stock or tuned the eff out, or somewhere in the middle, or a little less than that, or a little more. Many options, many builds - don't keep waiting!

1. Are the after market parts fairly inexpensive? Yes, since its release aftermarket parts have been decreasing in value - of course, when something is initially released prices will be at full mark-up, but over the past year cost seems to have gone down ~15%-25% (depending on the item)
2. Service Tech manual available for purchase? Yes.
3. Engine fairly easy to work on? Yes, I am a noob and this car has taught me a lot.
4. Engine reliable? With a 12:1 compression ratio is anyone having problems with modifying and causing motor meltdown? As long as your AFRs are high 11's (if I have that accurate) then you should be golden.
5. Are people seeing significant improvements from turbos etc. getting the car down to 14 second quarter miles or better? Or is everyone having to do total internal motor and drivetrain improvements to handle the power? If you stick to the stock, high compression ratio, it is best to keep boost relatively low (around 9 psi) on stock internals, etc.
6. Negatives of car? The "underpowered" point I made above, but it is a stupid ass reason, in my opinion.

Lastly, I have seen/read 2013 FRS's being available for around $23,500 which is a pretty nice drop from MSRP. Even if you get a 2014 or 2013 FRS for MSRP you will be not spending around $1,000-2,000 more dollars as you would on a BRZ. Typically BRZ's are a little more pricey, depending on where you are located, 1) because of the tech options (worthless imo) and 2) fewer BRZ's produced (less supply, high demand)