Low and flush but close to stock feel, advice?

[Norinradd]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

What stance coils can you get for $950? The suspension gurus here can tell you if they are any good. Be careful with cheap suspension components since they are very often a classic case of you get what you pay for. The big name players are expensive for more reasons than just the name.

Theyre the stance super sports. I can get tein zs for same price i just have read better things about the stance coilovers.

[Norinradd]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

I can get the rear end out with OEM power on OEM size MPSS tires. In low power cars technique is more useful than oomph for breaking the rear end loose. Wider tires would be the main drawback towards getting the rear end out, so if that's your goal, stay with 215 or 225 tires.

You need to identify your goal. If you want to make a drift car, that's great. This car is good for drifting. There are a lot of compromises for daily driving though. Drift cars will have extremely stiff suspensions with minimal travel, lots of front camber, little rear camber, and a lot of toe out. Which makes for a very uncomfortable and unstable daily driver with a lot of snap oversteer.

I would only buy stance or bc extreme lows if I was looking to stance or hellaflush my car. Those goals have their own tradeoffs with ground clearance and ride quality. For daily driving, I'd stick with Bilstein B14, RCE T0, ST, KW, or Tein Flex Z, with Ohlins RT at the top dollar end. None of these will go as low as Stance or BC Extreme Low, and all of them will ride better. If I was still unhappy with the height, a lip kit would fill the gap and make the car look lower without sacrificing ride quality.

RCE yellows lower by 0.7". Eibach Pro, Swift, and Hotchkis lower 1". Eibach Sportline lowers 1.4". Lowering 1.4" on the OEM struts risks blowing the struts, so Bilstein makes shorter struts. They're firmer than the OEM struts though, and by the time you factor in the cost of struts, you're at the cost of coilovers anyways. Your car won't be any less fun with more traction and better suspension. If anything, it'll be more fun. It just might not be as tail-happy at low speeds.

Well yes im aware its easy enough to get the rear out on any RWD standard car. You say stance are no good for anything but goin super low? Id probably only drop 1.5-2" with them.

I just figure i like the look of trd coil height. Would you say yellows keep the frs exaclty the ssme. With their equal spring rate? Are the stock coils equal spring rate!? Spring rate has to play a factor! Even with the suspension setup. I feel like the yellows would make the car more prone to understeer and take away a little of its playfulness. While the trd coild would cut on understeer, allow tighter corners and make it even more playful, am i wrong?

Hmm my goal. Id love a 350hp drift car:p. But realistically id like To keep my car as stock feeling as i can. Maybe more rear end play less understeer and more planted? If thats even possible not just one or the other. Id also like it to look a little better. Less wheel gap. Little lower. So i figure a 1" drop and 1" in wheel height and lower offset will acheive that? Will give me a bit more balance. Better looks. The absolute last thing i want to do is take away any tail happiness. I understand changing any geometry on a vehicle will change its characteristics, thats common physics. But such small changes cant take away its engineered feel can it?

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by Norinradd

Being softer upfront and stiffer in the rear would make the car even more tail happy!?

Yes BUT it may not be significant.
Could you give me a link to the springs you were thinking of?
When I searched for TRD 86 springs I found a TRD page for 3 different rates front and rear.

[Norinradd]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Like mentioned above. TRD Springs are essentially re-branded Eibach Pro-Kit. So it's Eibach Pro-kit vs RaceComp Yellow.

RaceComp Yellow
F - 0.8" drop - 4.5k rate
R - 0.8" drop - 4.5k rate

Eibach Pro-Kit/TRD Springs
F - 1.0" drop - 3.6k rate
R - 1.0" drop - 4.9k rate


RaceComp Yellow



Eibach Pro-Kit/TRD Springs

So its trd for 300$ or stance/tein for 900$

[Norinradd]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

Yes BUT it may not be significant.
Could you give me a link to the springs you were thinking of?
When I searched for TRD 86 springs I found a TRD page for 3 different rates front and rear.

You found three different rates because there are three different vehicle applications. For trd springs

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Norinradd

Hmm my goal. Id love a 350hp drift car:p. But realistically id like To keep my car as stock feeling as i can. Maybe more rear end play less understeer and more planted? If thats even possible not just one or the other. Id also like it to look a little better. Less wheel gap. Little lower. So i figure a 1" drop and 1" in wheel height and lower offset will acheive that? Will give me a bit more balance. Better looks. The absolute last thing i want to do is take away any tail happiness. I understand changing any geometry on a vehicle will change its characteristics, thats common physics. But such small changes cant take away its engineered feel can it?

If your primary goal is to control understeer, I suggest looking at adding some negative camber up front. That is by far best bang for your buck. Word on the street is, given a stock car, -3 degrees is the sweet spot for neutrality.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by Norinradd

You found three different rates because there are three different vehicle applications. For trd springs

Oh. I was looking at springs for TRD dampers. Sorry. I didn't see springs for oem dampers.
http://www.trdparts.jp/english/86_pe...uspension.html

[Captain Snooze]

Looking at those rates as posted by @DAEMANO.
Wheel rates are approximate.

RaceComp Yellow
F 4k
R 2.7k

Eibach Pro-Kit/TRD Springs
F 3.2k
R 2.9k

There's not a lot in it. I am suggesting that if you were to drive two vehicles back to back with each of the spring sets you might be be able to tell a difference but which ever set you went with you would very soon become acclimatised. Given your goal/s the TRDs would be the (slightly) better choice.

[Teseo]

Why not save a bit more and buy coilovers? You can adjust heigh and dampening, best of both worlds

[ChanceK]

Get bags!

[driggity]

Originally Posted by Venom1506

Nope Nope Nope.

I accidentally got the DWS's instead of the DW's and made the mistake of keeping them because figured they would be good for going up to Big Bear this season.

These tires are insanely soft, the sidewalls feel like play-doh. Any kind of "spirited" braking with the wheels even slightly turned and the sidewalls fold over and you instantly under-steer with ABS going nuts at the same time.

On top of not being able to drive hard they also make the car incredibly bumpy. Slammed on 12k spring rates bumpy.

If it makes you feel better the DW sidewalls are really soft too so in that regard I don't know if you'd like them any more. Better grip, but still soft. I was happy with them on my Legacy GT, but I don't think I'd want them on my FR-S.

[Vracer111]

Originally Posted by driggity

If it makes you feel better the DW sidewalls are really soft too so in that regard I don't know if you'd like them any more. Better grip, but still soft. I was happy with them on my Legacy GT, but I don't think I'd want them on my FR-S.

Compared to the stock Michelins the DW does have a less stiff and direct feeling sidewall. At the same time though, it is the perfect kind of handling to have for running through canyon roads. The stiffer sidewall tire would be more direct and car more influenced by road and input...in comparison the DW just grips smoothly and securely, much less prone to chassis darting around. And even if it isn't as direct in response to input, it turns in just about as quick and is noticeable more stable when pushing it.

Very much like the DW's better than the stock Michelins both for the grip and how you can hustle through corners more like a slingshot, with smoother and better acceleration as you have a higher slip angle with them (by slip angle I'm talking tire deflection from cornering forces, not car attitude/drift angle)....more fun, especially in the wet. I'm one who tends to like not so stiff sidewalls (because slip angle), but the need to be stiff enough to not be sloppy. Falken Azenis RT-215's were the tires I have liked the least in all my experience with performance tires....sidewall way too stiff on those for my taste. And then there are tires that are way too soft in their sidewalls though, Dunlop Direzza DZ-101 comes to mind....will never make that mistake again.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by Norinradd

Ive read lots of good things about both. It seems many drifters like stance. Autocrossers like tein zs. I assume theyre both top quality.

With the influence .6 and .9 times spring rates would that mean the trd coils. Being softer upfront and stiffer in the rear would make the car even more tail happy!?

I understand pricepoint, quality of goods and worksmanship. I just think some companies care alot more bout profit than others do. Spend thousands on marketing to justify the high price.

I have no opinion on Stance, but at that price-point I'd guess that, at best, they're like the Tein Z; what manages to surface as decent from the usual pile of trash that lives within that budget. However, I haven't seen any trustworthy feedback on them one way or another, so it's really hard to know. The Z's make some compromises to hit the price (I believe these are the ones that aren't rebuildable).

Any 'caring about profit' difference would be a small variance; you're not getting a $2k setup for $1k. Probably not even a $1.5k setup.

C

[MeisterR]

The MeisterR ZetaCRD coilovers might also be a candidate for your need.
It is a little more expensive than what you can get the Stance for, and it also may not go as low as might still be a small arch gap.

You can see more here: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...57&postcount=8



However, the ZetaCRD setup comes with a very sensible springs rate (5kg/mm front, 4kg/mm rear), long travel rear damper for good compliancy, and a rubber insulated press steel top mount to help avoid noise issue commonly associated with coilovers upgrade.

Just another option to have on your table.
It may or may not fit your need, but no harm putting it on the list if you want an adjustable suspension that can lower the car but retain stock feel.
Especially important for a car that drives on the road and need to be compliant for uneven road surfaces.

Jerrick