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Old 10-28-2014, 06:56 PM   #953
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Where would we get a breakdown of the different class results?
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Old 10-28-2014, 07:02 PM   #954
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Where would we get a breakdown of the different class results?
I'm sure Jessie will post when he's got time...

You need a BBK!
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Old 10-28-2014, 07:16 PM   #955
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I'm sure Jessie will post when he's got time...

You need a BBK!
Very tempting, and will definitely consider your advice for next season!
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Old 10-28-2014, 07:31 PM   #956
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Data highlight.

This is turn 2.



I'll let you guys dissect it a bit first, before I explain anything.

Let's give this a try. I never been to thill in a car. On a motorcycle a long time ago. So, first it looks like your coming in hot at 90mph and you apply mild brake pressure, heel toe, downshift. Then you start your turn. Your hugging the inside where there's a small bumps on the inside tires and you lose a little traction on the left. You feel the rear left tire getting loose so you feather the gas not to lose traction on both tires. As you see the exit of the turn. You go full throttle switch gears... Only to for a couple seconds and you start breaking and downshifting for the next turn. When you initiated your brakes. It looks like you broke traction a little bit when you hit your brakes.

That's my thought. I'm probably wrong but that's what I think I made out of reading it. How far off am I? 😜😜😜
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Old 10-28-2014, 07:39 PM   #957
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Yah sorry results as soon as I find the time...
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Old 10-28-2014, 08:20 PM   #958
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A few bonus ones...
PMok passing MyRx... thought you were boosted?!
He definitely let up to let me by... no way I was able to pass him unassisted.

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Chicks on bikes are cool
You sure it was a chick? At one point I saw someone with long hair in a moto suit and then realized it was a dude.

"Aaaaah, aaaaah, Dude looks like a lady!" -- Aerosmith
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Old 10-28-2014, 08:33 PM   #959
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Originally Posted by CSG Mike View Post
Data highlight.

This is turn 2.



I'll let you guys dissect it a bit first, before I explain anything.
Was this the CSG car? I would have thought you'd get a bit more speed out of the exit with the extra power, but then again I think you said your tires were cycled out so that would explain alot.

Also, it looks like you are hanging the tail out a long way to get a thrust angle going.

One thing I am confused about given the information provided is that you are braking after you start turning right which is not something I am familiar with on turn 3.

Also the complete drop in throttle part way through is strange given your 10 degree/s rotation, did you shift there?
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Old 10-28-2014, 09:29 PM   #960
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You sure it was a chick? At one point I saw someone with long hair in a moto suit and then realized it was a dude.

"Aaaaah, aaaaah, Dude looks like a lady!" -- Aerosmith
lol, statement is still true :P
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Old 10-28-2014, 11:30 PM   #961
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Was this the CSG car? I would have thought you'd get a bit more speed out of the exit with the extra power, but then again I think you said your tires were cycled out so that would explain alot.

Also, it looks like you are hanging the tail out a long way to get a thrust angle going.

One thing I am confused about given the information provided is that you are braking after you start turning right which is not something I am familiar with on turn 3.

Also the complete drop in throttle part way through is strange given your 10 degree/s rotation, did you shift there?
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Let's give this a try. I never been to thill in a car. On a motorcycle a long time ago. So, first it looks like your coming in hot at 90mph and you apply mild brake pressure, heel toe, downshift. Then you start your turn. Your hugging the inside where there's a small bumps on the inside tires and you lose a little traction on the left. You feel the rear left tire getting loose so you feather the gas not to lose traction on both tires. As you see the exit of the turn. You go full throttle switch gears... Only to for a couple seconds and you start breaking and downshifting for the next turn. When you initiated your brakes. It looks like you broke traction a little bit when you hit your brakes.

That's my thought. I'm probably wrong but that's what I think I made out of reading it. How far off am I? ������

The entry speed is rather conservative. The initial rotation is caused purely by weight transfer under braking. THe initial throttle blip is for a downshift into third.

The entire corner is taken under a state of slip, with minor corrections throughout the turn. The angle of slip is sustained, as inidicated by the speed of rotation indicated on GPS, as well as the lateral G forces, which has effectively zero correlation with steering input. You can see rotational changes minorly manifested in the rear wheel speeds having a 2-4% increase. This increase in rear wheel speed is corrected out via either weight shift with steering input, or throttle adjustment; the average correction occurs within 1/10th of a second.

The large drop in throttle toward the end is a gear shift; yes, the shift is occuring mid-corner, and does not upset the balance of the car. You can see that throttle application is removed by the rear wheel speed dropping to match the front tires, instead of being faster. You'll also notice that I roll onto the throttle from about 40% to 100% over the course of a full second, and this begins while the steering wheel is pointed *right* (this is a left hander for those not familiar). The car continues to rotate, again, without correlation to the steering wheel input.

At no point is the car going straight; the exit of 2 is directly connected to the entry of 3. This is observed by noting the rate of rotation via GPS, and the lateral G sensor. Initial rotation is again initiated under braking. THis is effectively a purposeful "cooking the entry" to increase cornering speed; the minimum speed and apex are still sustained.

This is a *terrible* example of "smooth is fast".
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Old 10-29-2014, 12:42 AM   #962
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSG Mike View Post
The entry speed is rather conservative. The initial rotation is caused purely by weight transfer under braking. THe initial throttle blip is for a downshift into third.

The entire corner is taken under a state of slip, with minor corrections throughout the turn. The angle of slip is sustained, as inidicated by the speed of rotation indicated on GPS, as well as the lateral G forces, which has effectively zero correlation with steering input. You can see rotational changes minorly manifested in the rear wheel speeds having a 2-4% increase. This increase in rear wheel speed is corrected out via either weight shift with steering input, or throttle adjustment; the average correction occurs within 1/10th of a second.

The large drop in throttle toward the end is a gear shift; yes, the shift is occuring mid-corner, and does not upset the balance of the car. You can see that throttle application is removed by the rear wheel speed dropping to match the front tires, instead of being faster. You'll also notice that I roll onto the throttle from about 40% to 100% over the course of a full second, and this begins while the steering wheel is pointed *right* (this is a left hander for those not familiar). The car continues to rotate, again, without correlation to the steering wheel input.

At no point is the car going straight; the exit of 2 is directly connected to the entry of 3. This is observed by noting the rate of rotation via GPS, and the lateral G sensor. Initial rotation is again initiated under braking. THis is effectively a purposeful "cooking the entry" to increase cornering speed; the minimum speed and apex are still sustained.

This is a *terrible* example of "smooth is fast".
Yikes! That line into three will make most people spin (if you are doing it where I suspect you are)! Out of curiosity, doing this type of a entry you must be cooking your tires pretty quick, right?
Also, are you doing this on the uphill, crest or landing?

Additionally, I think there is a possible improvements in turn 2 that you might be able to make (or maybe you are already and I just can't pick it up from the data).
Basically you can extend the straight into the turn by going far right, making a small turn and carrying in straight, then braking part way through the turn (I haven't pulled off this line, it has only been described to me). Theoretically this should shorten your time in the relatively slow continuous state section of the turn.

I am a little surprised you didn't take the turn in 4th; that shift seems like it would suck and you should have the torque to make everything work in fourth. I take turn 2 in third gear, but that is because I lack power to handle it in fourth. I also have a suspicion that if I entered the corner at a better speed then I would also be taking it in fourth (I am way over braking the turn's entry along with a bunch of other turns).
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Old 10-29-2014, 01:28 AM   #963
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Yikes! That line into three will make most people spin (if you are doing it where I suspect you are)! Out of curiosity, doing this type of a entry you must be cooking your tires pretty quick, right?
Also, are you doing this on the uphill, crest or landing?

Additionally, I think there is a possible improvements in turn 2 that you might be able to make (or maybe you are already and I just can't pick it up from the data).
Basically you can extend the straight into the turn by going far right, making a small turn and carrying in straight, then braking part way through the turn (I haven't pulled off this line, it has only been described to me). Theoretically this should shorten your time in the relatively slow continuous state section of the turn.

I am a little surprised you didn't take the turn in 4th; that shift seems like it would suck and you should have the torque to make everything work in fourth. I take turn 2 in third gear, but that is because I lack power to handle it in fourth. I also have a suspicion that if I entered the corner at a better speed then I would also be taking it in fourth (I am way over braking the turn's entry along with a bunch of other turns).
Rather, the opposite. Tire wear is reduced, since the load is being more evenly distributed, and you're not scrubbing the tires. This type of entry is performed at most corners.

I do something even more extreme. Rather than braking, I let lateral scrub brake the car.

I can do 4th, but 3rd provides more torque for me to correct with, if something goes awry and I need to correct oversteer.
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Old 10-29-2014, 01:42 AM   #964
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This is a *terrible* example of "smooth is fast".
is this how pobst drives?
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Old 10-29-2014, 02:25 AM   #965
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More photos and story now up on 86DRIVE.
http://86drive.com/2014/10/28/86cup-...-10-11-wrapup/













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Old 10-29-2014, 11:05 AM   #966
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is this how pobst drives?
I can back off like 3%, and the countersteering would completely disappear... or I can push harder another 5% and cook the tires in one lap, but go a few seconds faster

The style of my lines are similar to Randy's however.

One thing @RehabJeff86 noted was the lack of tire wear when I was driving.
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